ALL THINGS MARRIAGE: In-Laws, Expectations, Sex Conversations, and NEWLYWED Tips with Mike Novotny (Episode 302)
Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
Philippians 2:4 AMP “Do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.”
*Transcription Below*
Pastor Mike Novotny has served God’s people in full-time ministry since 2007 in Madison and currently at The CORE in Appleton, Wisconsin. He also serves as the lead speaker for Time of Grace, where he shares the good news about Jesus through television, radio, print, and online platforms. Mike loves seeing people grasp the depth of God’s amazing grace and unstoppable mercy. His wife continues to love him (despite plenty of reasons not to), and his two daughters open his eyes to the love of God for every Christian. When not talking about Jesus or dating his wife/girls, Mike loves playing soccer, running, and reading.“But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).
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Questions and Topics We Cover:
What is the single most dangerous thing couples bring into marriage-and how do they get rid of it?
Statistics reveal sex and communication as two specific areas that worsen over the first four years of marriage. How can we turn that around?
What’s your advice for navigating in-laws in a Christ-honoring way, as God intended?
Related Savvy Sauce Episodes:
85. Five Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman
185. Sex Series: God's Design and Warnings for Sex: An Interview with Mike Novotny
Sex in Marriage and Its Positive Effects with Francie Winslow, Part 1
Science and Art of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage, Part 2
Making Love in Marriage with Debra Fileta
Mutually Pleasing Sex in Marriage with Gary Thomas
How to Improve EVERY Aspect of Your Life: An Interview with J.R. Briggs (Episode 297)
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:11)
Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 1:31)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
I'm so excited to get to welcome back a returning guest, Mike Novotny. He is a pastor and an author, and what inspired our conversation is his most recent book, entitled Newlywed: A Christian Guide for Loving Year One.
So, we're not only going to talk about year one in marriage, but all of the other topics that apply no matter where you find yourself in the marital journey. So, we'll cover things such as in-laws and finances and sex and communication. So, you're going to want to make sure you listen all the way through to glean all this wisdom. Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Mike.
Mike Novotny: (1:32 - 1:34)
Great to be here. Thanks for having me back.
Laura Dugger: (1:34 - 1:50)
Well, it's truly my pleasure. And as you've been a guest before, now we get to just dive right in. So, I want to know, what is the single most dangerous thing that couples bring into a marriage, and how can they get rid of it?
Mike Novotny: (1:50 - 2:54)
Yeah, that's a great question. I had a chance to interview 20 brand new married people from our church recently. So, I bribed them with a bunch of caffeine. I said, “Let me take you to a coffee shop.” And I basically asked them the question, “What did you think marriage was going to be like? And then what was marriage actually like when it began?” And what I found out was that each couple had kind of distinct answers when it came to the details of it. You know, for some people, there were differences on expectations with chores. For others, it was relationships with in-laws. For some, it was sex and intimacy. For others, communication or faith.
But I think the thing that linked almost all the conversations together was that these people had entered into marriage with a whole bunch of expectations in their hearts that they had never spoken to the person that they loved. And I came away with this realization that it is so great, obviously, to have love and faith when you enter marriage. But having love and faith is not enough for a successful marriage. Mutually agreed upon expectations are like the third key leg in that stool that make a brand-new marriage stand strong.
Laura Dugger: (2:55 - 3:06)
Wow, that is really insightful. And did you come up with any specific areas where couples tend to have these unvoiced and even unmet expectations?
Mike Novotny: (3:07 - 3:09)
For sure. How long is this podcast?
Laura Dugger: (3:09 - 3:10)
Like seven hours?
Mike Novotny: (3:10 - 4:26)
Because I think that's what I would need. Yeah, it could be, I mean, let's go down the list. It could be like when I get home from work, do you expect me to do the housework or do I expect to relax and pull out my phone? When you're driving and we're in the car together, do I expect to catch up on work emails and texts? Or do I have to give you my full attention because you're driving? Do I expect that we're going to have sex once a month, once a week, once a day? Do I expect, well, I initiated last time, so you initiate this time. Do I expect that we're going to hang out with your parents this Christmas and my parents next Christmas?
Do I expect that I'm going to do like the car stuff and the yard stuff because that's what my dad did when I was growing up and you're going to do the cooking and cleaning and the primary caregiving of our children? You can pretty much take anything. It could be housework, in-laws, communication, faith. Are we going to church every week? Are we reading our Bible every day? Do we pray together? All these things are expectations. And very often they're not like right or wrong, good or bad kind of things. But I think where it gets good or bad is whether I voice them, we've talked through them, come to a mutually agreed upon expectation or not. There's actually one Christian counselor I interviewed. She said every marriage has two problems.
One, you have a whole bunch of expectations you haven't told your spouse about. Number two, you're pretty sure that all those expectations are correct.
Laura Dugger: (4:28 - 4:28)
That's good.
Mike Novotny: (4:28 - 4:29)
So that was a good word.
Laura Dugger: (4:30 - 4:45)
That is. And so, for those couples, let's specifically talk to couples that are premarital right now. How do they even know to bring up these conversations, or they might not even know what expectations they have in their heart?
Mike Novotny: (4:45 - 5:52)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm not sure how many hours the average couple spends on planning for the wedding day. I have a hunch it's triple digits with the centerpieces and the menu and the invitation list and the dress and the flowers and, you know, everything else. But what I don't think that most couples do is just to think that there's this whole list of things we should probably talk about. And that's not to say that if you don't talk about everyone, you're doomed or you're off to a terrible start. But, wow, what a beautiful thing. I mean, I wish I would have had this advice to, like, talk through these 25 things. Take a deep dive date and just go out for food that you love. And, OK, we're going to talk about chores.
Tell me what you saw growing up with your mom and your dad. And I'll tell you what I saw. What are my expectations of what I'm going to do, you're going to do, how much we're going to do? I think if you can take, like, one date per topic, you can really dig into the key questions. So, I don't want to be naive. I don't want to be, like, too pastoral and think for every hour you spend on planning the day, let's, like, spend an hour planning the days that are going to come afterwards. But, man, if you can just rebalance that scale a little bit, I think you're not just going to have a great wedding day, but a great marriage once that day is over.
Laura Dugger: (5:53 - 6:15)
Absolutely. And then even for couples that have been married, it doesn't matter how many years, that may be a wise word for dates to be that intentional. Because seasons change and expectations may always change or be lingering there. So, at any phase of marriage, how can we actually move toward agreed-upon expectations?
Mike Novotny: (6:17 - 7:28)
Yeah, I think it starts with understanding is probably step one. So, can I, in my own words, kind of express what you think, what you expect? So, I hear you saying this, you're telling me this, you expected me to do this. If I can check that box, that's step one. Number two, you know, can we dialogue and get to a spot that we're both comfortable with? Let's say we're talking about money in the budget. Okay, you would love to spend all the money from, like, the tax refund. I would like to save all the money from the tax refund. Are we comfortable meeting in the middle? And then three, what I think is a really deeply Christian thing is that let's say we can't get to that spot.
Can I ask the Holy Spirit to help me to make me a selfless spouse that's not here to be served but to serve? That if my expectation is here and yours is there, can I put my own desires on the altar and say, okay, I wish it was this, but I'm here to serve you. And I want you to know how I feel, but I definitely want to love you and prioritize you and kind of Philippians to you to value others even above myself. So, to me, that's kind of like the trio. Do I get it? Can we compromise on it? And if not, can I sacrifice just to show you that I'm not in this for me, but for us and for you?
Laura Dugger: (7:29 - 7:50)
Love it. And your book can be a great resource for that. Maybe just practically as they take that out on a date. Like, okay, this week we're covering this chapter and come up with conversation starters. Or what if the couple says we don't even know how to bring this up? Do you have any really practical ways to begin engaging in this conversation?
Mike Novotny: (7:51 - 8:42)
Yeah. Yeah. Two ways. You mentioned the first. I really tried to write the book in a simple way that you could just take it with you on a date night. In fact, I encourage family members and friends like buy this book as a wedding gift and then stick like a gift card inside as a bookmarker and say, okay, we're paying for the first date or the first two dates, and we'd love for you to set a great foundation of faith and communication. So that's one. If you want a free version, not that I don't want you to consider my book, but wow, how great is AI for stuff like this? So, hey, my future wife and I want to talk about finances in a relationship. Give me 15, like, belief the surface questions that we could ask each other on our next date.
And while AI is not Jesus and there might be some that don't work, I think there's going to be some really insightful questions, you know, taken from all the counseling websites online that are going to get past those, like surface conversations and help you connect in a pretty profound way.
Laura Dugger: (8:43 - 9:05)
I love that questions. We joke that that's my love language. So, any ideas for how to get more of those? I think that's great. And you also write that seeking God together is the most important habit that a newlywed couple can build. So, what does this actually look like to build this keystone habit in a busy household?
Mike Novotny: (9:06 - 11:24)
Yeah. Yeah. So, Kim and I met back in the 1900s. It's how we tell a story to our kids. Back in the same century where the Model T was invented and cars started to be used, we met in college our freshman year at the Freshman Mixer. And Kim was actually the first girlfriend I ever had. So, I'm one for one. We got engaged junior year, married just after college graduation. And on our wedding day, which was June 15th, 2003, my pastor, kind of a classic illustration, he said, Mike, you need to picture your marriage like a triangle. And you're in the bottom corner and Kim's in the other bottom corner and God's at the top.
And if you go after God with all of your heart, you're going to get really close to God, but you're still going to be a distance from Kim. And vice versa, if she's really deeply spiritual and biblical, but you're not, she'll have a great faith, but you'll still be at a distance. But if both of you are kind of seeking God together, what naturally happens is that distance between you starts to shrink as you move towards the apex of the triangle. And we really found that to be true. That when we're prioritizing, worshiping together, when the Bible's open in our home, when we're praying out loud with one another, that there's just something about the intimacy of it.
In fact, just last Sunday, this older couple, like 75, think they may be widowed, now just remarried, said like, we just got your newlywed book. And they're, you know, the age of my parents. And they say, oh my goodness, the chapter on faith about praying out loud together. And I loved what this newlywed wife said. She said the level of intimacy, not sexual intimacy, but just emotional intimacy, when I hear my husband literally talking to my God about our marriage, like he could be asking the God of the universe for health, for wealth, for success.
But no, what he's literally talking to God himself about is to love me better, for us to be closer together, for us to connect and to communicate, for us to get past this roadblock of conflict that we've had. Like what a trust and intimacy building thing, when you don't say prayers in the quietness of your own heart, but your spouse gets to eavesdrop on you talking to God. So yeah, to my pastor's point, when we can do those things together, you know, it's not an overnight thing, but those spiritual habits just have a way of decreasing distance and increasing intimacy.
Laura Dugger: (11:25 - 12:04)
And I love on display that couple's humility, because no matter how long we've been married, there's always something new we can learn. And I think it makes marriage even sweeter and richer. So, I love that they were a walking example of that. But kind of on a more negative side, studies do show us that finances are one of the leading indicators or predictors of divorce. And so, Mike, where do you see couples most commonly go wrong in this area, maybe especially in their first year? And what hope can you offer as an alternative option instead?
Mike Novotny: (12:05 - 14:27)
Yeah, that's a huge question. Yeah, money is such an emotional thing, because my grandma Novotny used to say when I was a kid, “Oh, Mike, it's just money. The pigs don't even eat it.” My grandma was an awesome woman. But the fact is, you know, money can't buy you love. But money can buy a lot of things that make you feel safe, secure, that make you less anxious or worried about the future. Couples with money can go on trips and explore and have amazing experiences. So, it's not everything, but it is something. And I think what couples often do is they enter into marriage without really having thought about their, I would say, experiences and theology of money. So, you know, what do you actually believe about money?
Do you have, like, biblical convictions? Like, where did this come from? What is this for? How involved is God in our finances? Sometimes I think we make, like, budgetary decisions, and I think, “Whoa, she's spending way too much money. Or, Honey, how could you splurge on this when we haven't talked about it?” But a lot of people haven't, like, peeled back the layers to think, “No, what do I actually believe that's driving this behavior?” For example, let's imagine I grew up in a home where my dad was really cautious with money, and we didn't experience a lot of things because he wanted to save in early retirement. And then at age 57, I'm making this up, he has a heart attack and dies. Huh.
I wonder what I would think about money if that was my lived experience. Like, you only lived once. My dad sacrificed and saved, and he never got to enjoy it. And I'm probably thinking, I'm never going to do that. I'm not going to make my family suffer for some uncertainty that might never come around. Or just the opposite. Imagine a woman grows up in a home where mom and dad get a dollar and they spend two. And they're just overspending what they have, and it leads to, we couldn't pay the rent. So, I'm a freshman in high school, and I'm, like, moving. I'm embarrassingly, like, packing up my stuff to go to another spot because my family doesn't have money. Well, now I get married. What do I think?
I think I got to save, save, save, because you never want to have that, like, shameful moment again. So, I think what a lot of young couples don't do is they might think about their income or expenses, but they don't think about the deep-seated beliefs that are going to drive the behaviors that they make with dollars and cents. So, I think having a good deep-dive date where you're thinking through your own life experience, your theology of money, and just understanding your spouse is a really great place to start.
Laura Dugger: (14:28 - 16:28)
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Another area is that statistics reveal sex and communication as two specific areas that tend to worsen over the first four years of marriage. So how can we turn that around?
Mike Novotny: (16:30 - 16:35)
Yeah, which one do you want to start with? I feel like those are two giant boxes to check. So, do you want to go sex first or communication?
Laura Dugger: (16:36 - 16:38)
Let's go communication first.
Mike Novotny: (16:38 - 18:59)
Yeah, that sounds good. I actually wrote in the book what I call the Ten Commandments of Communication. Whenever I think of the Ten Commandments of Communication, I think of two of my best friends. Their names are Tony and Amna. They both grew up in, I would say, not ideal kind of relational circumstances in their family. I think she was pregnant at age 16. By God's grace, they stayed together. Actually, when I moved to Appleton, Wisconsin, where I'm at right now, my first Christmas here, they came to church. And I think it was Amna's first time in a Christian church in her entire life. Amazing story. So, they get baptized on Christmas Eve along with their two kids. We get in a Bible study together. We become really great friends.
And I do their wedding about a year later. And I had the Ten Commandments of Communication, which I use in our premarital counseling. And they said that that was such a paradigm shift from the way that they had been communicating that they literally got like a frame at a local department store. And right in the middle of their living room was a framed copy of the Ten Commandments of Communication. And they would say what I think I found to be true, that the first commandment that I have on that list is, you shall not try to win. Because when you enter a conversation trying to be right, nine of the things are going to go wrong. You're not going to practice active listening. You're not going to check for understanding.
You're not going to be humble because you don't think you have anything to learn. You might interrupt. You might raise your voice. You might get defensive. You might get competitive. You might switch topics because you feel like you're losing the first topic. So, you're going to do all kinds of wrong. So, you know, those Ten Commandments are just golden for me.
Communication is hard. When you live with someone so many hours a day, so many years in a row, there's always going to be stuff. And so just learning, like, the bedrock skills of, okay, this conversation might be emotional, but it's not about me winning. It's about understanding.
And if I can really understand you and you can really understand me, nine out of ten times this is going to get better real quick. But if I go in this thinking, like, no, you're wrong and I'm right, and I'm about to prove it to you, and you just need to sit down and listen and take out a pen and a pad of paper because, oh, man, everything's going to go off the rails. So, yeah, you might not frame those Ten Commandments of Communication, but they're worth reading, even memorizing and putting into practice.
Laura Dugger: (19:00 - 19:07)
That's good. Okay. So then how can we also turn it around for the enjoyment of sex declining so rapidly in a marriage?
Mike Novotny: (19:08 - 19:11)
Yeah. Actually, are you okay if I slip in one more thing about communication?
Laura Dugger: (19:11 - 19:12)
Oh, please. Yes.
Mike Novotny: (19:13 - 21:37)
Yeah. I was counseling a couple of months ago, and it was just an ugly spot. Their marriage had really gone downhill. And I noticed as he was talking, he would talk a ton about all the good things that he was doing in marriage. And then he would talk a ton about all the things his wife was doing wrong in marriage. And then she's kind of sitting there, arms crossed. And as soon as he was done talking, okay, she had a lot to say, too, except, man, Laura, would you believe this? She did not want to talk about all the great things about her husband and all of her own sins. She flipped the boxes of the conversation and said, oh, but maybe you should tell the pastor when you said this and this and this.
And don't forget that I'm doing that and that and that. And it kind of dawned on me that in emotional conversations, there's four boxes that you could spend your time in. The good things you do. The bad things you do. The good things your spouse does. And the bad things your spouse does. What I call boastful and accusatory or humble and complimentary. And all four things are probably true. I'm guessing because neither of you are Jesus, both of you are sinners. I'm guessing both of you aren't Hitler either. You probably do a lot of good things in your marriage. And really, when things get tense, I think where the devil tempts us the most is to just dwell in the boastful, accusatory boxes.
Here's all the good things I do and all the bad things that you do. And what do you know? Your spouse will return the favor when you do that. And I found that in communication, if I can just pray, Holy Spirit, help me to be humble and complimentary. To say, “I'm frustrated right now, but honestly, I have to own that when I said this, or when I raised my voice, or when I changed my mind and didn't communicate, I didn't love you well. And I want to work through this because I know that you do A, B, and C, and you're working hard in our marriage.” I have a hunch if you start the conversation in the boxes of humble and complimentary, your spouse isn't going to respond in the worst way. Like, yeah, you're right, I am amazing, and you are terrible.
You know, humility begets humility. And I think your first confession and desire to be complimentary is going to come back to you pretty quickly, and you're going to end up in a good spot. So sometimes if I'm in a tough conversation with Kim, man, I don't do this really well yet. But I try to picture those four little boxes hanging in the room above our heads and saying, okay, when it's my turn to talk, which boxes am I going to spend my time in? Because that kind of communication leads to great connection.
Laura Dugger: (21:38 - 22:21)
Oh, I'm so glad you added that, Mike. And it reminds me, this was years ago, but the late Gary Smalley had shared in his marriage what had really helped him. Was it a neutral time, or maybe when their cups were overflowing, he would write down beautiful things about his wife, very specific what he appreciated about her. And then when emotions were running high and he was really upset with her, he would excuse himself, retreat to the office, pull out this piece of paper, and study this, and it would begin to soften him. Because it can be harder probably in the moment to come up with all of those wonderful things about your spouse when you're feeling so emotional or negative. And so, I think that kind of goes along well with those four quadrants.
Mike Novotny: (22:21 - 22:22)
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Laura Dugger: (22:23 - 22:40)
And sex and communication are connected. And so, I don't like that statistic that the first four years of marriage, it drops off drastically. How can couples enjoy their sex more each year rather than a declining level of enjoyment in marriage?
Mike Novotny: (22:41 - 25:49)
Yeah, huge question. To be honest, this was the number one difficulty that Kim and I had in our earliest years of marriage. Actually, seven years in, we went to a sex therapist to try to figure it out because we loved each other and we loved Jesus, but it was just complicated and messy. And I had a pretty bad history with pornography that kind of messed with my expectations of sex is supposed to be easy. Why is it so complicated? What's wrong with me or you or us? All this is working. And so, I mean, this chapter is pretty personal and near and dear to my heart. I think what encourages me is that statistics also say that the most happy and satisfied sexual couples are old married Christians. I love that. I really do.
Sometimes I'll share that at like college campus talks and everyone is just disgusted and stunned to think like their parents or their grandparents or their aunt and uncle like know more about sex than they do. But it's true. And I think the answer is because sex is so intimate and so personal. And you can't read like seven tips in a magazine to be a great lover to your actual spouse. You have to learn them and their desires and their turn-ons and turn-offs and what works and what doesn't. And everybody is unique. And every person's story is unique. So, I think, I love how you said it, with the right kind of communication, this can be this awesome learning journey where we're getting better and better and better.
I think something that really helps is to remember like if you're new to sex, of course, you're going to be bad at it. If you think it's going to be like this home run and you're going to love it and your spouse is going to love it. Like literally Major League Baseball players get paid like $30 million a year and one out of four times they get a hit. So, if you enter into the covenants and you barely get a single or it's a home run and then you strike out three times in a row, I think you're actually a pretty normal human and a pretty normal spouse. So, giving yourself some grace to not put too much pressure on the marriage bed. You're learning the times that don't go well. You know, is it just a long day? Is someone tired?
Is it the wrong time of the month? Had you not like served and loved each other enough ahead of time? And I think as long as that's a thing you communicate, a lot of people have sex, but they don't talk about the sex that they're having. And so, questions like, what are your best sexual memories of us together? What's something you're curious about? What's something we've done that you hope we never do again? There's a really cool podcast that some young couples at our church told me about called the Kingdom Sexuality Podcast. And they're just like Christians who are super biblical, who talk about all the things with sex.
So, if you don't know where to start, if you get like, oh, I wasn't raised in a home where like this was ever talked about. I found that's a really great resource, a podcast that you can listen to that will bring you two together. And I know you've dug into a lot of things too. I was looking at your YouTube channel. So, you've been courageous to go to all those places. So, I would say let people like us, my book, your YouTube channel, that podcast, start the awkward conversations. And then you can react to them as a couple and hopefully kind of dive deeper and deeper into godly sexuality.
Laura Dugger: (25:50 - 27:15)
Absolutely. I say amen to all of that. I think it's so helpful to always have that external resource. But you don't always know where to turn as a Christian because there's wild stuff on the Internet that we wouldn't recommend. But I will add some links in the show notes for other Christian sex therapists who have spoken or other pastors or links to your previous episode. You were part of the sex series talking about biblical view and what that looks like in marriage for sexual intimacy. So, a lot of places to start. And I think it's great tied into those dates that you talked about earlier.
If the couple can either listen together or listen on their own, and maybe both of them come up with one part that they want to discuss or one question they have for each other and come together. I just think it's a way that you can continue being one. And like you said, a lot of couples are having sex, but they're not talking about the sex they're having. And that's a huge piece of the intimacy when you pair those together. But Mike, I also loved what you had to share about communication on page 79. When you said, “Talking to your spouse is harder than you would think. That's because many of us, while learning to read and write, never learned how to talk. The best talkers remember to check four boxes in their conversations.”
Me, you, good, bad. And so, will you just share more about that quote?
Mike Novotny: (27:16 - 29:32)
Yes. Okay. You're going to think I'm the worst pastor in the world, but here's where that came from. I was thinking to myself, as I stand in the church lobby waiting for the service to begin and all these people walk through the doors, why is it that certain people walk through the doors and I get kind of excited? And why is it that there are a few people that walk through the doors and I think, “Oh, okay, here we go.” You can do this. And I think my answer was it had little to do with their age, their ethnicity, their gender, their church experience. And it had almost everything to do with conversation. And the people that I really enjoyed talking to had a nice balance of me and you. They weren't like monologuers that just like blasted me.
And I just sat there like enduring their words every Sunday for months and months and years and years. And they weren't mutes. When I tried to ask them a question, they'd say, good, fine. Okay. I'm pulling teeth like, oh, this is so agonizing. And the best people that I loved talking to would talk about the good and the bad. So, they'd celebrate the blessings of God in their life, but they were vulnerable enough to say, but I'm really struggling with this and I need some prayers. Some people are just so positive and guarded. You feel like you can never get close to them. And other people would just like dump all of their pain on you that you felt like, man, I should be getting paid for this because this is like counseling work.
And I felt like the best interactions, and this was true at church. This is true with friends. I think this is true with coworkers and classmates. And it's absolutely true with your spouse that if you can do me, you, good, bad, I have a hunch you'll consider it a good talk. Like, I'm going to tell you about my day, but not tell me about your day. You only told me a little bit. Let me ask you some questions or kind of poke on that a little. Oh, you sound like you were frustrated with that. Tell me more about what happened with your boss. And if I can open up for the good and the bad, I'm super excited about blank. To be honest, I'm kind of anxious about blank.
Like just those four basic boxes, I think are a really simple recipe to help anyone have a better conversation. And if we can kind of resist the pull of our phones or maybe our natural wiring, which might be to over-talk like a guy like me or to under-talk like some of the quieter people among us, if we can check those four boxes, man, I think that really makes a good talk.
Laura Dugger: (29:34 - 30:28)
That's so good. It reminds me of a previous episode with J.R. Briggs. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's the author of The Art of Asking Better Questions. But he put it in a completely different way. But if you are more mindful of those four areas, he helps provide conversational starters and goes into even biblical view of conversation because those people are life-giving. And I think it's a skill that we can all grow in. So, we're not just born with it or without. But I'd also love to chat just a little bit further about sex because there's still more that you write about. And typically those are the most searched for topics that people come to The Savvy Sauce to hear about as well. So, from your perspective as an author and as a pastor, what are some maybe a handful of helpful learnings to share with newlyweds?
Mike Novotny: (30:31 - 34:16)
Yeah. I think I wish Kim and I would have known what some counselors call spontaneous desire versus responsive desire. They say about 80% of the time it's the husband that has the spontaneous desire, but that's obviously not true 100% of the time. So spontaneous desire is the person who like wasn't thinking about sex. And then I walked through the door and I saw you and you looked handsome or cute and now I'm really thinking about sex. So just out of the blue wasn't on my calendar, but spontaneously I'm really ready to kiss you right now. And if you're ready to kiss me, like, let's go. So, some people are kind of wired that way. Other people almost never feel that way.
It's not like just one look, you know, one raised eyebrow and now suddenly I have this sexual fire inside of me to connect with you. For a lot of people responsive desire is where they enjoy sex, but normally they don't enjoy sex until after it's begun. So, they respond to it and their bodies kind of catch up with the spontaneous desire of their spouse. I wish I would have known that because I'm a spontaneous desire guy. Like Kim's a responsive desire woman. And I always thought like, okay, you know, I initiated sex this time, but next time you're going to initiate and that'll be fair. That was my expectation. And it turns out like I was ready to initiate sex like a hundred percent of the time.
And I would wait like for her to feel the same way that I felt about her and she didn't. And, instead of just understanding, Oh, okay, we're just wired differently. I actually took that personally. Like, well, do you not desire me the same way that I desire you or not interested? Do you think like sex is my thing instead of our thing together as a couple? And because of that, you know, maybe a little bit impatient. I think it tempted me to pressure Kim more than I should have. And instead of just understanding, okay, in our unique relationship, I'm probably going to be the guy nine times out of 10 who initiates sex. And it's not bad. That's just the thing that works for us. Then I learned, you know, Kim and I are super scheduled people.
I literally have like just rows and rows of boxes that I love to check. Nothing makes me and Kim happier than like a productive day where we check a lot of boxes. We have scheduled, like we've planned the next five. I'm not exaggerating the next five vacations. So, for years to come, we know where we're going. They're almost broken down by day. It's a problem. Maybe you can counsel me after our conversation is done. So, I don't think I applied our personalities to our sexual intimacy because we would have like a scheduled Friday night date and often intimacy would happen on that time. And kind of our goal was, “Hey, let's connect at least one other time during the week.”
But it, you know, I would try to initiate and it was like, oh, Kim would be in the middle of something and it'd be, it'd feel like an interruption and she'd have to get her mind in the right spot and it would never go all that great. So, I would wait for her to initiate and then she wouldn't until one day. I don't know what this took us literally like 15 years. Why don't we just schedule both times? Why don't we do like a short morning dates before we go to work and then we'll do our Friday night dates. And honestly, I look back and like, I'm not the dumbest guy that I know. Why did this, why did this take me a decade and a half to think, huh, we're organized, scheduled people. Maybe we should organize and schedule our sex life.
But something in the back of my brain just said that wasn't romantic enough or spontaneous enough, or if you really loved each other. So, I think the overall advice I would give to couples is just to know thyself and to know thy spouse. What might work in this book that you read, this podcast you listen to, might not be you. So just think of who you are. Like we said before, learn from your experiences, get educated in things like spontaneous and responsive desire. Try to figure out where you are somewhere in the middle. And that knowledge is so powerful when it comes to like, knowing how to love your spouse well in that sexual way.
Laura Dugger: (34:22 - 36:03)
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I love how you share that and that you're very candid in the book and you even give couples guidelines for things that people ask you as a pastor, can Christians masturbate and topics like that, that a lot of places they don't know where to go to have safe, trusted advice. So really appreciate you being open about that.
And I think it's brilliant about scheduling sex. That is one of the first things we learned in graduate school. I think my very first Christian sex therapy course was they talked about SS. Encourage your couples to schedule sex because if it really is that high of a priority, what is the likelihood of both of you feeling great at the same time of day and your kids are not around at that point and your schedules line up, it's not going to work as well. And I have a hunch that it's the enemy that whispers to us those things. That's not spontaneous enough. That's not romantic enough when really you're going after what you said with that triangle.
You're going after the Lord and his desire for couples to connect and you're going after your spouse at the same time. And I think that's a very practical word. So, thanks for sharing that.
Mike Novotny: (36:03 - 37:44)
Yeah. It's so good, especially for Christians to remember that sin doesn't come into the Bible until page three, but sex shows up on pages one and two. So yes, section sex can go to sinful places. Yes. Pornography. Yes. Lust. We want to be careful, but if you're like mindset as a Christian or maybe all you've heard, like from church or parents was don't do this or don't do that or wait until marriage. I would just like to say those things might be correct, but that's not actually where your heavenly father starts the conversation. In the first words, he spoke to humanity. He made them in his image, male and female. And he said, be fruitful. Like literally God's first, you ever think about that?
God's first words to human beings in our whole existence was about family and about sex. And then, you know, you get to chapter two, the first wedding and Adam just raves over his wife being walked naked down the aisle. And how does Genesis chapter two, and they were both naked and they felt no shame. So, it's really helpful. I think as a Christian, it's really freeing to say, if God started the conversation, I can continue it. If the Holy spirit who inspired Song of Solomon, which is pretty erotic, then I don't have to blush or be ashamed that in this beautiful covenant of marriage that I can't talk about such things. If the Bible talks about desires, you can talk about desires.
So, I hope more than you talk about the budget, you talk about your bodies. I hope more than you talk about work, you talk about sex. You can talk about work and the budget with your friends, but this is a really powerful, unique relationship. So just start where the Bible starts and believe deep down that the foundation of biblical sex is that sex is good by God's design.
Laura Dugger: (37:45 - 37:56)
Well said. And Mike, I'm also curious, what's your advice for navigating in laws in a Christ honoring way as God intended?
Mike Novotny: (37:57 - 40:52)
Wow. Yeah, there's two verbs. I think that we have to hold intention. One appears in Genesis 2, when God establishes the covenant of marriage, that a man, the verb is must leave his father and mother. It's a strong verb in the original Hebrew. It sometimes means to abandon. So, this idea that my primary relationship has totally changed. It's not 1a and 1b, me and my mom and dad, and me and my spouse, I've left that old one. And now Kim and I are one in flesh. So, I have to leave, which practically means we're going to make decisions as a couple in laws might have opinions, but those are just opinions and those are not official votes.
Some people I've actually learned, especially from like Asian or Eastern cultures where there's a tremendous amount of honor can really struggle with disappointing parents. You know, kind of the guiding light was to honor your elders. So, a truly biblical Christian marriage can be tough because you want to prioritize your mom or your dad who spent all this time and energy sacrificing for you above your spouse who maybe you met four years ago. So, leaving. And then maybe I just hinted at the other one, honor your father and mother. So, I've also noticed some Americans are really great at leaving, but they're not great at honoring. Anyone who has an opinion doesn't agree with us as dangerous or toxic or interfering.
And now suddenly the people who like spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and woke up at 1:17 a.m. To change your poopy diapers. You just booted them out of your life because they have advice on how you should parent or live. And I think those two verbs kind of are meant to be held in tension. Like, okay, me and Kim are going to make some decisions, but is there a way we can make those decisions that we really honor the parents who have done so much for us? I think it's in 1 Timothy chapter 5. You know, the one who doesn't care for their parents is worse than an unbeliever. There's such a biblical passion to love your parents and recognize the sacrifices they made for you. So, let's make it practical.
Let's say it's your first Christmas together. Your parents are celebrating on December 25th and your spouse's parents are too. What do you do? You can't be both places at once. You can talk that over as a couple. You can kind of get insights from everyone involved. You could sit down, pray with your spouse, make a decision, and then just have the honor to follow up and talk with your parents. Don't text them. Don't ghost them. Don't beat around the bush. Say, “Mom, I love you. I really wish I could be there, but Kim and I talked about it and here's what we're going to do this year.” So be, be clear with them, be kind with them, thank them for the invitation. Maybe next year will be a little bit different.
So, I think that's the way that I'm, I'm leaving. I'm not letting my mom and dad dictate my decision, but I'm also honoring and depending on how you're wired, you're probably going to lean one way or the other in those two words. But man, those two biblical verbs, if you can hold them in a good balance, I think set you up to be in a good spot.
Laura Dugger: (40:53 - 41:07)
Well, and you and I clearly believe that practical tools are helpful and they work. So, will you share your top five practical tools and explain why they have the potential to enhance marital satisfaction?
Mike Novotny: (41:09 - 43:08)
Well, man, I'm thinking of the toolbox. There's a lot of them. Um, you know, I think for me and Kim, um, having a weekly date night was a tool. It was like the utility knife tool. So, you know, when it comes to sexual intimacy, a great date night just helped us to get away from the chores and the emails and the work stuff and connect as lovers. It was also a great place to talk about being partners. Like how are things going at home? How are the kids doing? It also allowed us to just eat good food or have good entertainment or go out to a movie. So, I've always seen like a scheduled date night to be the thing that can help a bunch of other things. So, it's not in the Bible. There's no 11th commandment.
You shall have a date night, but I've really found that when we build that into our schedule, it was really hard for us to go more than seven days and be in a bad spot with each other because date night just had a way of resolving so much of that as we, as we came back together. Um, I'd also say like a quarterly check-in. So, as you go through marriage, I love to, I'm scared to, but I love to ask him the question if I wanted to be like a 10% better husband this quarter, what would I change? And Laura, would you believe that Kim always has an answer to that question? I'm waiting for her to just look at me with this befuddled expression. Like, no, no, but she always, she always has something on her mind.
So, I, I think when you can try to like push yourself towards humility that maybe you don't want to hear it, but worse than not hearing it would be to have it be stuffed somewhere down in your spouse's heart. So, is there something I'm doing a little bit that you would, you like it and you'd love to see more of? Is there something that's kind of annoying you and it could grow into like this cancerous tumor between us. So, I love that like weekly date and that quarterly check-in. I think those two things have just a way of surfacing issues, big and small and keeping you connected. So, I think if I was going to choose two tools, that'd probably be the place where I would start.
Laura Dugger: (43:08 - 43:22)
That's good. Well, and your book covers so many other practical tools, such as one chapter is entitled when you feel like you do more chores. So, Mike, what can a spouse do if they are feeling that way?
Mike Novotny: (43:24 - 44:57)
Maybe this is just my brain, but data is so helpful to me. So often things that I feel aren't factual and I can run away with my feelings. And then I find out the facts and I think, oh, I wish, I wish I could have told my feelings that last week when I, when I was going crazy. So, you know, I think having a conversation is a great place to start. And then if you find yourself that you can't resolve it, just to find the facts. Okay. How many hours am I putting in like for household chores a week? And let's say Kim and I both work the same number of hours. We're splitting parenting duties. This really happens to men and women a lot that guys will take like the yard work and the car stuff.
And women will take like inside the house and the categories might match up. But what I've learned is that for me to take care of the cars and cut the grass is like two hours a week. And when it comes to the cooking and the cleaning and the scheduling for all the kids stuff on the calendar, like that's, that's like two hours a day for Kim. So, the categories might feel equal, but the actual like outputs, like who gets to relax and how much is very distinct. So those kinds of facts, that kind of data can open my eyes as a spouse to say, Oh, wow. I did not mean to like be taking advantage of you. I thought we were kind of even, but we're not even. So, digging into those facts to see, am I just in a bad mood and I'm tired?
Or is there something behind this that's driving me to this exhaustion? So yeah, dig into the data. I think it's a good tie breaker if you feel stuck in a marriage.
Laura Dugger: (44:58 - 45:22)
It's good. And it really does serve both of you. It serves your spouse and it serves you yourself because when you take things off of each other's plate, then both of you can hopefully relax together. But another chapter is entitled when your spouse pays more attention to their phone than to you. So, what do you want to share with a couple who is currently experiencing this as their reality?
Mike Novotny: (45:25 - 47:07)
Yeah. Oh man. People who make phone. So, I didn't get my first smartphone until I was 27, I think. So, I was already like in full-time ministry. My brain, I think had mostly developed by that point. And yet, and yet I am just so stunned by the magnetic power of that device. Times I'll find myself like opening the weather app and I realized I just looked at this like 22 minutes ago. What am I, but just that the brain's desire for novelty makes a device like a smartphone, such a powerful drug. So don't be shocked if you struggle in your relationship with this. I think it's super common. I think these are masterfully crafted devices and their sole purpose is to get your attention.
So, me, a six to human being with a mediocre personality, like my ability to get Kim's attention in the face of dings and pings and new emails and posts and Instagram is really difficult. So, the advice that I would have for couples is just to come up with some boundaries of like, let's say people, places, things, times where you can use the phone or you can't. For example, for us, like no phones in the bedroom, no phones at the dinner table. We have a rule, like I would love to drive, but I would love to have a conversational partner. When I drive, I don't want to stare at the windshield while you kind of catch up with stuff on your phone and you're lost in a different world.
So, for us, we just kind of talked it through of like our expectations of when do I want to connect with you? Conversationally, when is it cool? If you just veg out and scroll, that's going to be different from person to person. But I think just expressing that, understanding your spouse and hopefully coming to that mutually agreed upon expectation is a great next step.
Laura Dugger: (47:08 - 47:26)
I love that. How it even circles back just to those expectations and communication and this is so ongoing, but draws us closer together. So, I'm just going to call it one other chapter title, which is eat, drink, and move for maximum love. So, will you elaborate on this?
Mike Novotny: (47:27 - 49:50)
About a year ago, I preached a sermon on gluttony. I'd preached sermons, I think on every like taboo topic, anxiety, depression, suicide, transgenderism, politics, race, pornography, sex, like all the things. But the one in like 17 years of being a pastor, I'd never preached on gluttony and it stunned me that the word glutton or gluttony only appears I think seven times in the Bible. And almost always it's paired with like drunkenness. And that was super helpful to me because I thought, okay, the body, the way that God designed our bodies was not made for tons and tons and tons of alcohol. Like if you overindulge on alcohol, there's a very real consequence that we all know about.
You get hungover, you're moody, you're sick, you're not your best. You can't serve your neighbor very well. The morning after you get hammered. And then I realized, wait, in a really different and maybe more socially acceptable way, food does the exact same thing. That God designed our bodies for food, for the enjoyment of food. But like every Thanksgiving feast shows you, if you overindulge on food, there's a very real physical consequence. And the consequence is your body is using all of its energy to process the massive amount of food that you ate instead of being able to like love your neighbor. You know, think of how sluggish you get, how tired you get, how much you need a nap.
And it dawned on me like, “Wow, if I'm going to be fully charged up to love Kim, which is a big, beautiful calling and task, then I have to be pretty serious about the food I eat, the alcohol I drink and the way that I care for my body.” If love mostly happens when I have the energy to love, then these basic like, you know, physical dietary building blocks that feed and fuel my energy, they're actually going to be so important for my marriage.
So, you might not think having two slices of like cake on date night is like a romantic thing, but if you sugar crash after it's over and your spouse wants to have a deep dive conversational and your brain is just like, oh, in another place, sluggish crashed, it's really going to affect your ability to love. So, it was painful to me. I love, love, love to eat. I tend to overeat. But that was really helpful to know as, as good as it would be to have another portion and another bite. I think what I'd rather have is the ability to love my spouse well.
Laura Dugger: (49:52 - 50:07)
Wow. That's so good. Cause we don't think of that as often. It's a very real experience. And then I'm just curious also, what other encouragement do you have for engaged couples or newlyweds and even those of us who are a little further along?
Mike Novotny: (50:07 - 51:34)
Yeah. In a word, Jesus. While marriage is so beautiful and so challenging and it's so revealing and you will sin against your spouse way more than you would ever imagine. You can love them more than anyone on earth. And yet just the time and the tension and the good and the bad they see in you. So, I love the fact that I don't just have a marriage. I have a Christian marriage and primarily that doesn't mean I have all these good tips and commandments from Jesus Christ. It means I have his grace and his mercy at the start and end of every day. So, if I wake up tomorrow and today just wasn't a great day for me as a husband, his mercy is new every morning and the blood of Jesus Christ, God's son purifies us from all of our marital sins.
Knowing that I'm forgiven for the pornography I indulged in. Knowing that God is gracious for the communication times I messed up and wanted to win and be right. Just the forgiveness and the cleansing of Jesus is so beautiful to wake up to every morning and then to extend to the spouse who's probably sinned against you one or two or 10,000 times. So, I hope this book has a ton of practical tools, conversations, ways to make your chores better and your sex life better and your phone use better. But more than anything, I just want couples to know that Christian marriages have Christ. And if you have Christ, you have the compassion, grace and mercy of God.
Laura Dugger: (51:35 - 51:58)
Nothing can compare with that. And you bring up a huge word that maybe that'll be in our next conversation someday. But forgiveness as a Christian couple, that is huge in marriage. But I also loved one of your quotes that you said, “The best spouses act without being asked.” And so, do you want to share just a little bit more about that? I thought that was really good.
Mike Novotny: (51:59 - 53:31)
Yeah, I think you're going to be a pretty good spouse. If your spouse asks you to do something, you do it. But I think what will blow their mind and make you the best kind of spouse is where you act before they've even asked you. And if you're thinking, well, I can't read his mind. I don't know. I'm not Jesus. I don't know what she's thinking. I would actually bet that if you're just listening carefully over the days and then the weeks and the months, you know exactly what would bring her joy, what would relieve his stress, what he wants deep in his heart. My wife hates ironing shirts. Like if there's one thing she would rather never do for the rest of her life.
So, if there's like a pile of shirts and if I kind of sneak after she goes to bed and iron those, if I act without being asked, she will wake up and think, “Thank you God for this man that I married.” So just be a basic student of your spouse. On my phone, actually, I keep a little notes file. My file is called D-U-W-D, date until we die. And it's just like a list of ways I want to date Kim, romance Kim, love Kim. So, whenever she drops like a little crumb of something she wants or interested in, a pair of shoes she was looking at, a place she'd like to travel to, a restaurant she wants to try, something I can pray for her for, I drop it in the date until we die folder.
And I just have this way that I can act without her having to ask me because I've been trying to listen carefully to my spouse. So yeah, act without being asked is a great way to be an amazing husband or wife to the one that you married.
Laura Dugger: (53:31 - 53:48)
I love that intentionality. And what a great way to wrap our head around one piece of what it looks like to be a spiritual leader and go first in that way. But Mike, we've got this book. Where else can we go to learn more from you after this chat?
Mike Novotny: (53:49 - 54:04)
Yeah, if you go to Amazon, you'll find a bunch of books that I've written. Newlywed: A Christian Guide for Loving Year One. is the latest one. Otherwise, I'm the lead speaker for a media ministry called Time of Grace. So, if you go to timeofgrace.org, you can find sermons on marriage, on dating, on sex, all the things that we talked about. So that's timeofgrace.org.
Laura Dugger: (54:05 - 54:24)
Wonderful. We'll add the links to all of those places in the show notes for today's episode. And as a returning guest, you're already familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Mike, what is your savvy sauce?
Mike Novotny: (54:27 - 55:00)
Oh, my savvy sauce is like reading a book and then using it as leverage to have great conversations with my wife. So, there's so much to learn. There's so many stages of life. You might be the newlywed or the young parent or deep in your careers. We just sent our firstborn daughter to college last week. So, we're like in a whole new stage. I love just finding a book or a video or a podcast and saying, “Let's fill ourselves up with knowledge, talk about it together, adjust our expectations, and hopefully this year is going to be the best year we ever had together.”
Laura Dugger: (55:01 - 55:15)
That is so good. And Mike, I'm just, again, reminded of your kindness and grateful for your upbeat conversational style and your heart for Christian marriages. So, thank you so much for being my returning guest today.
Mike Novotny: (55:16 - 55:17)
Hey, Laura, thanks for having me.
Laura Dugger: (55:19 - 58:33)
One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.
This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.
Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.
And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.
First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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