Power of Praying Scriptures over your Marriage: Special Patreon Release with Jodie Berndt
1 Thessalonians 3:12 (NIV) "May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you."
*Transcription Below*
Jodie Berndt is bestselling author of the Praying the Scriptures book series, which includes volumes for Children, Teens, Adult Children, and Life, plus the new Praying the Scriptures for Your Marriage (2023). Jodie has been a trusted speaker, Bible teacher, and prayer warrior for over thirty years. She and her husband, Robbie, have four married children, and they live in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
Connect with Jodie through her website or Instagram.
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
What are some ancient truths from Scripture that stand out to you, specifically as it relates to marriage?
Will you share a few of the helpful questions for couples that you write in the book?
How have you seen kindness open the door to changes in a marriage?
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:09)
Laura Dugger: (0:10 - 2:47)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
I want to say a huge thank you to today's sponsors for this episode, Chick-fil-A East Peoria and Savvy Sauce Charities.
If this is your first time here, welcome! You may be wondering what it means to have a special Patreon release. So, here's the scoop. Patreon was a platform we used to generate financial support for The Savvy Sauce, and we expressed our thanks to those paying patrons by giving them a bonus episode every month. But, in 2024, we transitioned away from Patreon when we became a non-profit called Savvy Sauce Charities. The podcast is part of this non-profit, which exists to resource loved ones to inspire growth and intimacy with God and others.
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And now I'm pleased to share this episode with you that used to only be available to paying patrons. Jodie Berndt is my guest today. She is the bestselling author of the Praying the Scriptures book series, and today we're going to focus on the powerful way to pray the scriptures for our marriage. And I just want to give you a heads up that you may hear a lot of airplanes in the background during our conversation, but I hope it doesn't take away from all the goodness Jodie is about to share. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Jodie.
Jodie Berndt: (2:49 - 2:53)
Laura, thank you. It is just a huge treat to be able to chat with you today.
Laura Dugger: (2:54 - 2:59)
Well, will you begin by just first telling us a bit about yourself and the work that you get to do?
Jodie Berndt: (3:01 - 4:19)
Sure. Yes. Well, like you, I have four children. Mine are grown now, though. I have three daughters and then a son at the end, and they're all adults and married and having kids of their own. I met my husband back when we were in college. We both went to the University of Virginia and got married right after college, kind of jumped into the whole marriage and family thing. By today's standards, it seems ridiculously young. I look back and I think I don't know what we were thinking. But as Robbie, my husband says, when you meet the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, you want the rest of your life to start right now. And I think we both kind of felt that way. And so, we've been married now, I guess, nearly 38 years.
Your listeners may know that I write books. I write the Praying the Scriptures books. I've done others as well. But those are the ones that I am primarily focused on now. Praying the Scriptures for Your Children, your teens, your adult children, your life, because we needed ourselves too. And then most recently, Praying the Scriptures for Your Marriage. So, I never set out to become a prayer writer or even a book writer. But golly, I have realized the power of prayer and my desperate need for God's help in all things. So, I think it sort of fell backwards into it. And it's been a fun journey.
Laura Dugger: (4:20 - 4:37)
Well, and I first encountered that book that you mentioned, Praying the Scriptures for Your Children, when I was a new mom, and it was so powerful. So, when you look back to that one, what are some of the stories or takeaways that really stand out from that resource?
Jodie Berndt: (4:38 - 9:31)
Oh, gosh. Well, thank you for asking about that one. That was a book that was sort of born, as I said, out of my own need for the Lord, because nothing reveals your flaws and inadequacies and need for help beyond yourself as much as having children does. At least for me, that was the case. I'd grown up in a Christian home. Prayer was a natural part of life for me but not sort of the specific intentional prayers and not praying the scriptures.
And for anybody who doesn't know what that means, it just means taking the words that we read in the Bible, the things that God actually says to us there and using them to shape how we think about things, how we long for things, kind of creating our desires as based on what we read and then animating our prayers so that, as Jesus says in John 15, he looks at his disciples, he's getting ready to go to the cross, and you think of all the things he could have talked about. He chose to drill down on staying connected to him primarily through our prayers. He says, "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you." And then he explains why. He says, "This is to my Father's glory that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples."
And I think I read that chapter in those specific verses, probably a hundred times over my life without fully comprehending what he was talking about there. And I think what he's talking about is that as we abide in him, as we remain in him, as we stay connected day in and day out, whether we're doing the laundry or running a carpool or anything else, we can allow the things we read in the Bible to shape our thoughts, shape our longings, and then give voice to our prayers. And when we do that, that really is the secret to living a difference-making, transformational, impactful life, to bearing fruit.
I loved being able to kind of look back over a 20-year history. And the stories in that book, in all my books, are real-life people who have real-life struggles and real-life prayers. And some of them have very happy endings. Some of them are still being played out. All of them represent times when we're having to trust God. And as I looked back over 20 years of praying parents and watched these families, where when I first was interviewing the mom or the dad, their kids might be five or seven or ten years old. And now, you know, these kids are in their 30s, some of them. And I'm like, wow, God, you know, it's like watching hair grow sometimes when we're praying and we don't see the needle moving. But with the perspective of history and time, you can see how God works. And so that was a huge blessing to me that I didn't expect when I went back and re-read the book and updated the book to be able to see what God has done.
And one particular chapter that I loved in that book was the chapter on praying for your child to promote God's kingdom. And there's a story in there about two little second grade boys, Brandon and Eddie. And I was part of a moms in prayer group at the time. And we were praying a verse, Ephesians 5:16, that our kids would make the most of every opportunity, that they would be wise in the way they live. We really didn't know how God would answer that prayer. But what parent doesn't want their child to be wise in the way they live and to make the most of the opportunities? Well, sure enough, we prayed that prayer. And two weeks later, one of the moms in our group came in and told the most jaw-droppingly beautiful story of how her son, a second grader, as part of an in-class assignment, had chosen to write a persuasive essay. And you can imagine what a second-grade essay looks like. But most of the kids in the class thought, I'm going to persuade my grandmother to give me a bicycle or I'm going to persuade my mom to let me stay up late and watch a TV show, whatever it is. This child chose to write to one of his classmates, who had been known as a real troublemaker in that class and in the school, about why he should accept Jesus as the Lord of his life. And he put these 10 points, things like, you know, God loves you. Jesus loves you. You can have anything you want in heaven. Just is a second grader's viewpoint. And I'm telling you what, I did that interview and wrote that story 20 some years ago. And still today, as I look back on that child and again, getting to watch him grow up, he's now a father with children of his own. And seeing how God has worked in that child's life in answer to that Ephesians 5 prayer that our child will be wise, making the most of every opportunity. I'm just dumbfounded. First, by how God answered that in a second grader's life and how he's continued to have the answer to that prayer unfold over this young man's life as he's grown. It's just we never can know when we pray what God will do.
Laura Dugger: (9:33 - 9:53)
Absolutely. Because the fruit looks so different than the seed. And that's incredible to have that gift of perspective. But now with your newest title, Praying the Scriptures for Your Marriage, first of all, how do you even respond to someone if they ask you, why does prayer matter in marriage?
Jodie Berndt: (9:54 - 12:29)
Yeah, well, that's actually a question that I get more than you would think. And especially from people who aren't super comfortable praying. Because a lot of us, even if we've grown up in church-going Christian homes, the idea of praying with our spouse just might not come naturally. And even for Robbie and me. But I'll tell you one of the reasons we want to do it is because prayer really does matter. As I jumped into writing this book, I started doing some research and secular research points to all of these benefits that it reinforces the idea of prayer does that you're on the same team. Psychologists have found that prayer increases a sense of satisfaction in your relationship. It heightens your own sense of emotional well-being. If you're mad, it gives you a chance to calm down. It can lower your blood pressure. And there have even been studies done that shows that when couples pray together, it even leads to better sex. And so, you get all of these things that are completely separate from maybe the spiritual side of why God would want us to pray. This is just the secular research.
But when you take it a step further and look at why God wants us to pray, oh, my goodness. You know, it opens the door to intimacy, both with ourselves and with the Lord, because honestly, it's being vulnerable, isn't it? When we pray, you know, that is asking God for help. That's acknowledging our dependence on him, admitting we can't always be kind or selfless or forgiving on our own. And, you know, I don't know any husbands or wives who can do those things because we're all inherently flawed. We're broken. We're selfish people. And we can kind of start to shrivel up under what pressure to just get it all right, you know, to be a good wife, to be a good husband. And we can feel like we're failing. And yet, when we realize that through prayer, we've got this vehicle of inviting God into the mix, into our relationship, of letting the Holy Spirit step in and do the things that only he can do to work in us, giving us, as Philippians 2:13 says, the desire and the power to do what pleases God. I mean, that just changes the equation. It removes the burden from our shoulders of trying to build a strong marriage or be a good husband or wife. And just says, God, you know what? I can't do this on my own. I need you. Our marriage needs you. And that just opens up the runway, I think, for us in marriages and really gives us a new intimacy and a new confidence in our relationships.
Laura Dugger: (12:30 - 12:45)
Well, and Jodie, you did so much research on marriages in preparation for this book. So, what are some of the ancient truths from Scripture that stand out to you specifically as it relates to marriage?
Jodie Berndt: (12:45 - 16:24)
I'll tell you, an ancient truth that runs throughout Scripture is God's desire for us to talk to him about all of the details of our lives. There's nothing too big or nothing too small for him to care about. And I know you shared with me that you loved the Isaiah 7:11 verse in The Message translation, which is when Ahaz and the Lord are talking together. And God says, ask anything, you know, be extravagant, ask for the moon. And that's God's invitation to us to ask big. But there are also verses in Scripture where it says, you know, he delights in the details of our lives. He bends down to listen. So, we really can talk to him about the smallest things.
And I'll tell you, in terms of what you term ancient truths, I would say, and your listeners, I'm sure, know this, that the Bible is kind of one big story of God's love for us. And the covenant of marriage really is designed to reflect that. You know, we say this in our marriage vows, but I've yet to meet a bride or groom who really knows what they're talking about when they say those vows. I know for Robbie and me, we were just starry eyed and in love and speaking these vows without even really thinking what it would mean for better, for worse, you know, in sickness and health, to love and to cherish all of those things. But I'll tell you what, marriage gives us a chance to live out the gospel every day in a million little ways.
I love what Tim Keller says about the gospel. He says the gospel is this. It's that we are more sinful and flawed in ourselves than we ever dared believe. And yet at the very same time, we are more loved and accepted in Jesus than we ever dared hope. And, you know, isn't that a picture of marriage? Because nothing reveals our flaws and our sins as much as taking two inherently selfish people and bringing them into close proximity with each other day in and day out. We are going to love against each other. We're going to be aware of our brokenness. Nobody knows my weak points as much as my husband. Nobody knows his as much as I do. So, we're so aware that we're flawed. And yet within the covenant of our marriage, we can honestly say, OK, we are more loved and accepted than we ever dared hope as we do what Christ did and give ourselves up for one another.
Ephesians 5, it's that classic New Testament passage about how human relationships are supposed to work. And Paul starts out, he says, Ephesians 5:2, "Walk in love as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." And you may blow by a verse like that because it sounds very theological and holy. And you think, OK, what does that really mean in my human relationships? And more specifically, what does that mean for our marriage? OK, walking in love, giving yourself up. It could be something as simple as getting out of bed to let the dog out so that your husband or your wife can sleep in. It may be going to the in-laws for dinner when everything in us wants to stay home because we know that's what our spouse longs to do. Anytime we choose to put our partner's needs and desires ahead of our own, that's partaking of the gospel. That is giving ourselves up for them as Jesus gave himself up for us. Even as we do that in the little decisions of our lives every day, we get to live out that gospel. And what a beautiful opportunity. So, if I had to take one ancient truth from all of scripture, it would be that the Bible is one big love story of God's love for us. And in our marriages every day, we can live that out in a million little decisions.
Laura Dugger: (16:26 - 16:50)
Well, in your book, you open up about your journey of learning to listen to your husband instead of interrupting him. Oh, yeah. And just a crazy side note. I'm just going to quote you here where you write, the average person pays attention for about eight seconds and can only go 17 seconds before interrupting someone. 17 seconds.
Jodie Berndt: (16:50 - 19:53)
Yes. I mean, I read that in my research. I think that was out of Stephen Covey's The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, I think was the source there. But when I read that, I thought, oh, my goodness. A, that makes me just mortified. But B, it makes me feel better about myself because I am an interrupter. I always think that I have the answer, the solution or something that's going to be really either interesting to say or solving to say whatever it is. And I had to learn to give my husband space to speak because like a lot of men, I think he's not super verbose. He's not going to be letting his words tumble out. And so, I have to give space and time in our conversations for him to be able to get his words together instead of just leaping to a conclusion and saying, I know exactly what you mean or stepping in and trying to finish his sentence because he may have something that he's concerned about or worried about.
You know, I tell a story in the book, too, where when we taught a marriage class, we had to rate each other on all kinds of things, 20 different topics on a scale of like zero to four. I think it was. And he gave me a zero in meeting his emotional needs. And I thought zero, but that's not fair. I didn't even know you had emotional needs because you are such a steady, reliable, non-mercurial person. And I realized just because he's steady and not all over the map, doesn't mean he doesn't have fears and worries and concerns and emotional needs just like I do. I had to learn to kind of let him express those. And for his part, he had to learn to let me speak without immediately jumping in and wanting to fix something. I think men, a lot of our husbands are natural fixers. They love us. They want to solve our problems. They want to help us analyze what's wrong. And there have been times where I have had to just look at Robbie, sometimes even take a space in my hands and say, OK, I just want to tell you something. And I don't need you right off the bat to fix it. I just need to be heard. I need to know that you understand. So, will you just listen without trying to solve or analyze or fix and let me express myself, communicate? And that's been a really good listening tool. So so, between me trying to interrupt and him trying to solve and fix, we have really had to learn some some tools and some strategies that we talk about in the book for becoming better listeners.
And I think it only makes sense, right? We are not ever taught to listen or taught to speak. I've got grandchildren here and it's really fun to watch them at age one and two and three learn to mimic what we say when we say, can you say yes, please? Can you say, you know, I love you. And it's delightful to watch our children learn to form words. But nobody ever says to us, OK, let me teach you to listen. Let me teach you to wait. Let me teach you to reflect. Let me teach you to ask questions to help you understand more. All of those things may not come naturally to us. And so, there are things we have to be intentional in marriage and in every relationship about learning.
Laura Dugger: (19:54 - 20:07)
Well, are there any of those game changing tools that you would like to elaborate on if someone really hasn't been trained to learn how to listen? Well, what has helped you and Robbie really listen and love?
Jodie Berndt: (20:07 - 22:13)
Yeah, well, me not. Number one, expecting him to be a mind reader. I think sometimes we girls, because we intuit things, we think, oh, surely he'll pick this up. And I've had to learn that I need to really be clear in my communication. And just like I said earlier, you know, if I just want him to listen without fixing, I need to say that. And we've also had to learn things like I think sometimes listeners can try to reassure other people. We can minimize the problem saying, oh, it's going to be all right. You know, don't worry. That happened to me once, too. And while we might think we're doing someone a favor by that, what we're really doing is undermining their need to express themselves, to be heard, to say they really are afraid or concerned.
And so, I think a good listener doesn't just jump in immediately with the reassurance or another bad habit is deflecting, you know, saying, oh, yeah, that reminds me of the time I. And we think, oh, good, we're going to take their mind off the problem by telling them another story. And no, they don't maybe need to have their mind taken off it right then. What they might need right then is to know that they're being heard. Or even another bad habit that we had to learn to avoid is intellectualizing something or explaining something. You know, well, the reason it didn't go well for you at work today, honey, is that you probably started by just saying exactly what you felt without giving everybody else in the room a chance to speak or whatever it is. You know, we're going in trying to armchair quarterback our spouse's life by explaining and intellectualizing when, again, they just need to know we're listening, we're hearing, we're willing to be sympathetic and empathize, and we're willing to pray. And we don't have to have the answers.
We can say, gosh, that must be hard. You know, why don't we just stop right now and just say, God, we don't know what to do here. Just like Jehoshaphat had said, you know, he was facing vast armies. He said, God, I don't know what to do. We don't know what to do. But our eyes are on you. And we can say that in our marriage saying, I don't know how to help my spouse. We don't know what to do about this. But God, we're inviting you into this mix. And that's what a good listener can sound like. Sometimes you don't have to have all the answers.
Laura Dugger: (22:14 - 22:36)
And I would even add, I guess it's part of the hope of this podcast, even, to ask really great questions. And our tagline is Practical Chats for Intentional Living. And the hope is that anyone listening would be inspired to also ask great questions and have their own practical chats for intentional living.
Jodie Berndt: (22:36 - 25:28)
Yes, I love that you bring that up. Because in the book, there are questions at the end of every chapter. I didn't start out to write Praying the Scriptures for Your Marriage. But after these other four books came out, I kept hearing from people on Instagram or via my website saying, when are you going to write something about marriage? You know, I'm in this most important human relationship. And we are grating against each other. You know, we need God's help when it comes to knowing how to handle conflict, how to handle our finances, time with our in-laws, intimacy issues, or learning, as you and I have been talking here, how to talk well, how to listen well, how to communicate, how to make friends. You'd think that would come naturally, but sometimes it doesn't. And couples struggle to find people that they want to do life with.
So, all of these things, leaving our legacy, parenting, are things marriages want God to be involved in. And so, these are what the different chapters, the topics. And at the end of each one, there are questions that we can ask our spouse. You know, hit the pause button and say, you know, say it's the chapter on having fun together. We might get to the end of that chapter and say, what's something you'd like to do that might surprise me? Because we don't always know what our spouse's idea of relaxation or fun or laughter would look like. And so, the questions in there are designed to elicit conversation. And you know what? If your spouse isn't interested in talking to you about any of those things, you can talk to the Lord about them. You can open your journal, and you can just write things out. You can listen to God. So, the discussion starters are in there for husbands and wives to use together or for you to use in your own quiet times with the Lord.
And I'll tell you, this is the only book in the series that Robbie has really written with me. He read every word of every chapter before I would send it off to the editor. And time and again, he would come back to me, and he would say, Jodie, I don't think a husband's going to really know what you mean by that. Or I don't think you have dug deep enough on this one or been as helpful as you might be on that one. And that made it hard. I mean, talk about a chance to have conflict with your spouse, invite them to edit your book. But it was so valuable because it has created a resource where I think a wife might buy the book. But I really do think a husband now might be willing to pick up the book. And even if the husband's not digging deep into the stories of every chapter, any husband or any wife can pick it up. Pray the 10 or 12 verses at the end of each chapter or just pray one verse that seems to resonate. And then avail themselves of those discussion questions and conversation starters so that it can help communication both between husband and wife and between you and God. So, thank you for bringing up that part about questions, because that really is something we need to do more about in life. We can't ever know someone without asking those things.
Laura Dugger: (25:29 - 26:18)
I agree. And so, we've covered now how listening is that one important ingredient in communication. But in addition, you write, it is still important to stay current with our spouse by also talking and sharing what's going on within and around us. And you write on page 49, The things we don't say can become wedges in our relationships. Communication involves two parts, talking and listening, and we need to be good at both. And Jodie, I think that you model a helpful way to think about this through something that you taught your children. So, will you share that illustration of serving the ball and hitting it back and how that applies to conversation?
Jodie Berndt: (26:18 - 29:16)
That's so funny that you pulled that out. And its funny right now because I just read that in a very important intellectual article that showed up in my inbox from one of these institutes. I follow on family studies and different things. I thought that Robbie and I had invented this idea of serving the ball. Our son was an athlete and not much of a talker. And because he was an athlete all year round, he would go to different tournaments, different places. And I remember him being a young teen and not being super eager to engage in conversation. But because we had four kids and you can relate to this, we were not always taking our kids to all the different tournaments and activities. A lot of times they'd be riding in a car with another adult, another team dad or mom. And on one occasion, I remember popping him in the car with a friend of ours who was going to go meet a lacrosse team, you know, another state away. And we knew he'd be in the car for three or four hours. And we said, OK, you know, when Mr. So-and-so asks you a question, you can't just answer with one word, you know, like I'm good or yes, sir. We want you to hit the ball back. We want you to think of something that you can ask him. Think of a conversation. That's our son's name. We said, like you're in a game where the ball has to go back and forth, like say something to keep it in play. And for him, that was a real eye opener for how to learn to talk when he mostly knew how to hit balls back and forth.
And researchers noticed that couples who paid that attention, you know, if a spouse, if a husband said, hey, look at that bird. Isn't that a pretty bird? If the wife didn't even notice the bird, that planted a seed of contempt or indifference, coldness, the cold shoulder that could grow, whereas if the partner said, wow, gosh, that is a pretty bird, and, you know, that reminds me of the one we saw last week on our walk, and, I mean, that's a silly illustration, maybe noticing the bird, maybe it's a sunset, maybe it's saying, wow, this, you know, hamburger is really good, whatever it is, whatever the little tidbits of conversation, when we pick up, when we hit the ball back, when we pay attention and say, you know, yeah, that creates an interest in our spouse and a kindness.
Laura Dugger: (29:17 - 35:00)
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Jodie Berndt:
And I'll tell you, when I started doing the kindness research, I said to Robbie, do you think some people are just more naturally kind than others? And he said, yeah, I do. I think some people are just naturally more kind. And I think he's right, but I don't think you put a period there, because kindness is a fruit of the Spirit, right? Galatians 5:22 and 23, it does talk about how love, joy, peace, patience, and kindness is what the Holy Spirit does in our lives. And researchers have found that kindness actually works with them like a muscle. It gets stronger in our lives the more we commit to using it. And I love what folks at the National Marriage Project discovered. They discovered that when we are kind to our spouse with these simple things, you know, bringing them a cup of coffee in the morning, it doesn't even have to be super important, that creates an atmosphere in which generosity toward one another can flourish. And what it does is create an upward spiral. You know, we all talk about downward spirals and how we can just descend into contempt or coldness. We can also ascend. We can create that upward spiral through simple, small words and gestures that communicate kindness in marriage. And it can change the whole climate and allow intimacy and love to flourish.
And I will tell you what, Robbie and I are in the empty nest years, and we have friends who are in our same season, and a couple of couples in particular. For the last maybe four or five years have confided to us that they're not as kind to one another as they would like to be. Their marriage is strong. They're not getting a divorce, but their kids are raised, and they each have kind of their own lanes they're in, and they're in the empty nest, and they're recognizing that they just don't treat each other with the generosity and love in their words and in their actions that maybe they did when they were younger. And you would say, oh, what a shame. Except that it's not a shame because these couples have committed to praying about it and to inviting other couples who will keep that confidential into their lives to say, hey, will you pray this for us? And I will tell you what, we are seeing the needle move in our friends' lives. It is a beautiful thing to watch someone in their 60s who thinks, you know what, I'm just not that kind, actually begin to soften and change and be kind as the Holy Spirit goes to work. So, if you're listening and you're thinking, you know what, I'm just not that nice of a person. I'm just not that kind. Or my spouse, they've been kind of cool or cold all these years. Don't give up. Keep praying. Keep trying. Keep relying on the Holy Spirit. Invite other couples into the mix who can come alongside you and pray for you and even maybe hold you a little accountable saying, okay, you know, that word was maybe harsher than it needed to be. And watch what God can do. Kindness really matters.
Laura Dugger: (45:06 - 45:45)
Yes, it does. And my husband, Mark, and I love to ask questions of couples who are in the next season of life. So, we have some friends at church who are empty nesters, and we've asked them similar questions around kindness. And it was really helpful that they said what really enhanced their marital satisfaction and enjoyment of one another in those years was their tone. And I thought that was a really practical application, just to be mindful of our tone. At any season, I think of us raising little ones as well to watch our tone with our kids and our spouse.
Jodie Berndt: (45:46 - 46:16)
Yeah, absolutely. And even when we speak in a tone that might, you know, I believe me, can blurt something out and it comes out sounding snippier than I meant. And I have to recognize that and say, I know that came out like I was challenging you or that I was correcting you or whatever. I didn't mean it that way. That was a genuine question of, you know, do you think we should do this or that? And I'm sorry it sounded snippy. So, we have to be aware. And when those things slip out to quickly correct that and say, gosh, sorry, let me try that again.
Laura Dugger: (46:17 - 46:38)
Yeah. And I guess it's reminded me of one other quote that was really helpful. On page 63, you shared that one husband was giving a really practical definition for respect. And he said, respect looks like paying attention when I am talking, even if you have better things to do.
Jodie Berndt: (46:39 - 48:11)
Yeah, I remember that couple. And I'll tell you, this was a great illustration. I'm glad you brought that one up because this is a wife who loved her husband deeply, respected what he did, said good things about him publicly and in front of people. And she would think, well, so of course he knows I respect him. Like I just praised him in front of our small group, or I just told him what a great job I thought he did on that presentation or whatever he told me about from work. And she thought, so of course he knows I respect him, but he's watching their day in, day out encounters and realizing that like so many women, you know, we do five things, 10 things at once. And he's thinking, I don't even think you're paying attention to me because I'm over here talking and you know, you're cooking the dinner or checking something on your phone or whatever. And you're listening with kind of half an ear. And she had to learn that to him, respect meant stop what you're doing and pay attention to me. And of course we can't do that all the time. Like especially if we've got little kids and they're grabbing our legs and stuff, we might have to say, hold on. I really want to pay attention to what you're saying. Can you give me five minutes to, you know, get the child settled with a coloring book or put the baby to bed or get some food in this toddler, whatever it is, because this is important to me. And I want to pay attention. So sometimes when an important need for respect is, is happening, we have to just set the stage to reassure our partner that yeah, I love you. I want to listen. I want to pay attention. I want to respect you. Let me set it up so I can do that really well. So yeah, good one.
Laura Dugger: (48:12 - 48:17)
Well, do you have any other favorite stories or lessons that stand out from your book?
Jodie Berndt: (48:18 - 51:06)
Well, I think a big takeaway for me is the importance of community kind of at every stage. You know, the Bible says walk with the wise and become wise for a companion of fools suffers harm. You know, that's a proverb. And I think it's really true that we need to be intentional about who we surround ourselves with. Certainly, as we're starting out young in our marriages, there's going to be adjustment phases. Even the most well-suited couples come from two different families. And as we're trying to blend our expectations, our needs, our desires, our histories, they're going to be bumps along the way. And you want to be surrounded with couples who will be able to almost laugh with you and say, yeah, you know, we had that too. And let me just tell you, here's how we navigated that. Instead of somebody who will say, oh my gosh, my husband drives me just as crazy. Like literally, I had a running group one time where I realized that there was a lot of husband bashing going on in the early morning hours as we would get out on the street, you know, before the kids went to school. And I thought this isn't really healthy. We need to change the channel on this conversation. And so, you know, and sometimes that was doable by simply changing the topic of conversation or saying something positive or just saying, “Hey, let's all list three things we're grateful about, about our spouse.”
But I think how we surround ourselves with couples really makes a difference also in the empty nest years. And I think our friendships change. Robbie and I have had friends change significantly many times over the years. Sure. There are those people that we can look back on college roommates that we're still in touch with, and that's wonderful. But we have had cross country moves four times. We have had different seasons with our kids where all of our friends might be the ones we're on the bleachers with because we are seeing them two and three times a week and traveling on the weekends to games and things like that. And now we're in the empty nest years and our friends are starting to go visit grandkids. They are in retirement, some of them and traveling for fun. Others have taken up new hobbies, new volunteer commitments. So that landscape has shifted and we've had to say, all right, let's look for life giving people, be intentional about who we want to invite over to our house for dinner, who we'd like to co-chair a project with, something where we are constantly thinking about how we can surround ourselves with people who share our faith, who will sharpen us. Again, that proverb about iron sharpening iron, our friends really matter. We want to be around people who keep us sharp and who will be intentional about pouring into our marriages. So, you know, they say divorce is catching, and it really is. If you're in a community where people are just quick to give up or quick to bash their spouse, change that, change that in your life. Look for folks who are leaning in and helping one another love well.
Laura Dugger: (51:07 - 51:27)
And I think you're very encouraging to those couples that are entering or in the midst of the empty nest phase of life. And you drew out a proverb that I'd never heard in The Message version in Proverbs 4:18, where it says the longer they live, the brighter they shine.
Jodie Berndt: (51:28 - 51:58)
Yeah. Isn't that a great one? I mean, you could read Proverbs 4:18 and in the NIV and the ESV and the King James, all that. And it's always good. But boy, when I hit it in The Message, and I don't know, I might've seen it around my 50th birthday or something, but I thought the longer they live, the brighter they shine. Amen. God, I want to put that on my refrigerator. Just remind me that, you know, you don't necessarily have to have all the Botox to keep shining bright. You can just have the Holy Spirit living in you and through you animating your life and making you radiant. So yeah, I love that one. I'm glad you called that out.
Laura Dugger: (51:59 - 52:06)
Yeah. Are there any other ways that you see that play out as people do start to navigate these empty nest years?
Jodie Berndt: (52:07 - 53:52)
I think you can become kind of insular as you get older. If we weren't being intentional about trying to have new experiences, make some new friends, your world can start shrinking because maybe your responsibilities at work aren't as demanding. So, you have more time away from work or your kids are gone. So, you're not seeing all the friends that you've done life with all that time. So, emptiness can be a time of loneliness for couples. And it can be a time when you are thinking, gosh, I'm not as active or having as much fun. But we have a friend named Jim Burns. He's written a lot of books on marriage and family issues. And he writes, he says, who would have thought that the most intimate times in a marriage aren't necessarily in the first few years, but in the empty nest. And he and his wife have navigated this transition so successfully. And I think it's in large part because they have been intentional about having fun together, about trying new things. And another couple, I know Susan and Johnny Yates, they're in their seventies. And they were like, Hey, we've never gone snowmobiling. You want to try it? Yeah, let's try it. And I just think, you know, the more we're willing to get out there and try new experiences, a new place to visit, it might even be as simple as a restaurant we've never been to, but just kind of ensuring that your world stays bigger, your friend groups stay bigger, and that you can be leaning into the fact that, you know, I think about Job where it says, God blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the former. And there is a real, a real beauty to knowing that you have a lot of runway left when you hit the empty nest years and asking God, how do you want to use me in my family, in my church, in my community, and being open to the things he puts in front of you?
Laura Dugger: (53:53 - 54:02)
I love that. And Jodie, you are just such an encourager. So where can we go online to learn more from you after this conversation?
Jodie Berndt: (54:03 - 55:19)
Thank you for asking that. My website is jodieberndt.com. And I would really encourage people to check that out and kind of scroll around. There's an area called resources and printables where there's a lot of free stuff like 31-day prayer calendars. You can download and print to help you pray for your marriage, a verse every day, or pray for your children or your adult children, your teens, your life, all of those calendars are on there, as well as little prayer cards, things you can tuck into your kid's lunchbox or leave on their bedside table. If you have a teenager who maybe would roll their eyes, you know, if you want to walk in there and say goodnight prayers, you might say, well, you know what? I'm just going to leave this little thing on their pillow, so they know that mom or dad is praying. And again, even if they're acting like they don't want it, I've never yet met a teen, my own included, who used to sometimes roll their eyes who will now tell me, you know what mom? I really was listening. I really did appreciate that. So, a little hang in there strategy, but yes, at jodieberndt.com all those resources. And then I'm pretty active on Instagram and that's just @jodie_berndt. So, if people want to follow there, I love to share different prayer prompts or encouragements. People can DM me with questions and it's just a fun way to, to make friends in a digital way that you might not ever be able to see someone in real life, but we can all learn from each other.
Laura Dugger: (55:19 - 55:40)
Well, we will add links to all of those places in the show notes for today's episode. And you may already be familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because yes, I love it. I love it. And savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, Jodie, what is your savvy sauce?
Jodie Berndt: (55:41 - 57:21)
That is such a great question. I love that you asked all your guests that I think for me, this might sound boring or even holier than thou, but I don't mean it that way. For me, a scripture is my savvy sauce. Like I turn to the Bible for my answers. I turn to it to shape my prayers. Like I can be so given to worry about something. I can just naturally go to a place of panic or uncertainty. And yet in the pages of scripture, I find promises that I can hold on to in a way that I can exchange my panic for peace and just trust God's provision. And the circumstances might not have changed, but what has changed as I lean into the Lord and read of his faithfulness in the past, they can help me trust for the future and it doesn't have to be this long. Like the other thing is there was a time when I thought, oh gosh, if I don't spend a half an hour, an hour, you know, reading my Bible with a candle smelling up the room and a nice cup of coffee and my journal open, it's not going to count. And I really, especially when I had younger children, it was so beautiful. An older woman, older mother set me straight. She said, Jodie, you know, you can talk to God in the carpool line. You can read three verses of scripture and meditate on those during the day. That may be more transformational than reading an entire book of the Bible and just having permission to take that in small bites, especially if you've got little ones. I think that is a great savvy sauce. Just find yourself a verse or two, hold onto it, write it out on an index card and meditate on it during the day and see what it does.
Laura Dugger: (57:22 - 57:43)
That is so good. And going back to what we had talked about earlier, I experienced so much kindness in you and have really enjoyed this conversation and appreciate all that you've brought to encourage marriages. And I'm wondering if you would just close us out now with a prayer over all the marriages that are represented right now.
Jodie Berndt: (57:44 - 59:43)
Oh, I would be so honored to do that. And right back at you. I mean, you're just, your voice is so very kind and welcoming. I just know your listeners love tuning in because it's like, just having a conversation with a dear friend. So, thank you for that. But I would love, love, love to pray.
Heavenly Father, I just thank you so much for this conversation. I thank you so much for every marriage, every household represented as folks who are listening. And I just want to pray that prayer that I think I start the book with because it just jumps out at me day in and day out from 1 Thessalonians 3:12, "May our love overflow and increase for each other and for everyone else." That's something that Paul prayed for the Thessalonians. And I just want to pray it over all of our marriages, over all of our lives, over our parenting, that our love would increase, that it would overflow for one another, for our families, for our communities. And that that would be the sign that people can look at and say, you know, that as that old song says, they'll know we are Christians by our love. And it is so true in the way that we love one another, in the way that we are kind to one another. That just speaks volumes, Lord, about your love for us. I pray that we really would, as Paul writes in Ephesians, make the most of every opportunity. I pray we would live lives marked with wisdom, that we would, as he goes on in that same chapter, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Let our marriages, let our families, let our friendships be marked by that mutual submission, by that desire to not look just to our own interests, but to the interests of others, just being humble, God. Let us live humble lives, glorifying you, looking out for one another, and growing in the knowledge and grace of your son, Jesus Christ. It's in his name we pray. Amen.
Laura Dugger: (59:44 - 59:47)
Amen, Jodie. Thank you so much for being my guest.
Jodie Berndt: (59:47 - 59:55)
Laura, thank you so much, and Lord bless you in the work that you are doing to just equip and encourage so many. It's just wonderful.
Laura Dugger: (59:55 - 1:03:39)
Thank you. One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.
This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.
Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.
And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.
First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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