How to Improve EVERY Aspect of Your Life: An Interview with J.R. Briggs (Episode 297)
Proverbs 11:24 (MSG) The world of the generous gets larger and larger; the world of the stingy gets smaller and smaller.
*Transcription Below*
J.R. Briggs (DMin) possesses four passions: following Jesus, equipping and investing in hungry kingdom leaders, growing fruit on other people’s trees, and creating good kingdom mischief. In short, his calling is to partner with people who are called to follow Jesus while they lead others.
In 2011 he started Kairos Partnerships, an organization committed to help leaders overcome their unique leadership challenges through leadership coaching, consulting, speaking, and writing.
For more than 15 years, J.R. served in pastoral roles in mega-churches, church plants and house church networks. Since starting Kairos Partnerships, he has served and invested in ministry leaders in over 40 denominations throughout North America. In addition to ministry leaders, he has invested in a wide variety of leaders, including business owners, college presidents, military leaders, Division 1 basketball coaches, and non-profit directors.
He serves as a guest instructor in the Master of Arts in Spiritual Formation program at Friends University and the Master of Arts in Leadership program at Taylor University. He has lectured, taught and spoken at over a dozen colleges, universities, and seminaries around the U.S.
He also serves as the Director of Leadership & Congregational Formation for The Ecclesia Network and as a National Trainer & Strategist for Fresh Expressions U.S.
In addition to writing several books on a wide variety of topics, he has also published articles in Christianity Today, Huffington Post, Preaching Today, American Bible Society, N.T. Wright Online, Missio Alliance, and Relevant Magazine.
He hosts the Resilient Leaders podcast.
J.R. and his wife Megan have two sons and live in the greater Philadelphia area.
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Questions and Topics We Cover:
Can you contrast Jesus’ teaching with field trips to the way we structure a typical Sunday morning in America?
Will you also share how you arrived at asking yourself two questions that have opened numerous doors for you?
Once we put this into practice for ourselves, how can we begin to cultivate it in our children as well?
Other Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned:
219. Training Our Children in Biblical Financial Stewardship with Matt Bell
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:09)
Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:44)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
J.R. Briggs is one of the most intriguing humans I've encountered, and it's hard to sum up his bio, as he's had so many experiences in his past through various pastoral roles, and then he became the founder of Kairos Partnerships, where he invests in leaders. He's also a podcast host, in addition to his work as an author. His most recent book is The Art of Asking Better Questions, and it's summed up in the intro, where he writes, "I have a bone-deep conviction that all of us need to ask more questions and better questions. Doing so can change your life and the lives of those around you." So now we get to actually learn how to make this happen with my guest, Reverend Dr. J.R. Briggs.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, J.R.
J.R. Briggs: (1:44 - 1:45)
Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this, Laura.
Laura Dugger: (1:46 - 2:00)
Well, I'd love to go back and first hear a little bit more of your origin story. So, do you attribute your love of questions and your skill for asking great questions more to nature or nurture?
J.R. Briggs: (2:01 - 5:04)
That's a fantastic question. No one has ever asked me that, Laura. So, right off the bat, well done. I love good questions like this. I think it's a little bit of both, and I'm not just wimping out on that answer. Here's what I mean.
I grew up in a wonderful home, still great friends with both my parents, and my parents, especially my dad, they were great question askers, and I saw them model this really well in the home. And I think in previous generations, it was, you know, kids are to be seen but not heard. That was not how my parents operated. They very much said, "You know what, we want to know what you think." And so, dinner times were great. Even hearing the way, especially my father would ask questions of people in the lobby at church or our neighbors, or we'd be at some party, and the way he would ask questions, I would just listen and say, "Wow, this is fascinating, the kind of conversations that are happening because of this."
So, modeled really well, but also observed a lot, and more is caught than taught. And I observed my parents doing this really well. And I thought, these are really fun conversations to just eavesdrop in on as a kid. And then also, I began to notice that there were people that were really fun and lived inspiring lives, and they asked great questions. And I noticed the people that had, that lived really small, uninspiring lives, I realized they weren't asking very many questions. And I began to say, "Well, which kind of person do I want to be? I kind of want to be in the first group. Well, what's the difference? These people are asking questions, regular questions, quality questions." And I thought, "Ooh, I need to pay attention to this and actually lean in to do this more."
So, I often learned how to do it too. So, there was the nature piece, the nurture piece, or the nurture, the nature piece there, the nurture piece, I did study. I'm kind of a nerd. And so, I would watch people who ask great questions and say, "Why was that a good question? What did they do? Why did they ask it that way? How did they know to ask that question as opposed to something else?" And so that was really helpful.
But then I began to notice as I read my Bible, I got a red-letter edition of my Bible and began to notice how many red question marks there were. And I began to take a pen and circle all of the red questions, question marks that Jesus asked. And I thought, "Wow, the way the truth and the life, who had all the answers, yet he asked a ton of questions." So that sent me on a deep dive that eventually I studied. And my doctorate, my dissertation for my doctorate was on learning to equip leaders to ask better questions in the way of Jesus. And so, using him as that model. So, there's a very long answer, Laura, to a very short question, is it nature or nurture? I really believe it's both. And I hope I can continue to learn in my own life until my last breath to how to be a better question asker, because it's that powerful.
Laura Dugger: (5:04 - 5:57)
Mm-hmm. I agree with that. And I love the humility in that response. Also, as you share it, it reminds me of a scripture from Proverbs 11:24, the Message version, which I believe previous guest Matt Bell had shared this as it relates to finances. But J.R., I hear it through your lifestyle of generosity with questions. And the verse says, "The world of the generous gets larger and larger. The world of the stingy gets smaller and smaller." So, I love how you illustrated that. But you're also the first person that I heard articulate this beauty of asking questions for connection rather than just for information. So, can you explain more of why questions are such a generous gift and an offering of hospitality?
J.R. Briggs: (5:58 - 8:36)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, one of the things that really hit me, I touched on this earlier, that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, the second member of the Trinity, who knows everything. Why would he ask so many questions? Well, he also said, "I only do what I see my Father doing." What did he see his Father doing? If you look in the Old Testament, God asks a ton of questions too. So, I said, "Wait a second. Okay. The all-knowing, all-powerful God of the universe, why does God ask so many questions when he already knows the answer?" And that drove me to say, maybe it wasn't just for information.
And I began to think about Adam and Eve in the garden and say, when he says, "Where are you?" It wasn't because God didn't know. And it wasn't a geographical question as much as I think it's a relational and theological question that he wants Adam and Eve to answer. And so, as a result of that, I said, "Why then would God do that?" Well, God already knows, but he desires connection with us. And then I thought, "Ooh, yeah, that isn't just God to us. There are times where I ask questions of my kids when they were younger, or of other little kids at church, where I know the answer already, but I'm asking it as a way of building trust and shared story and connection with them."
And I thought, yeah, there's real connection when it comes to questions. And when we do that, when we offer our full selves, the French philosopher, Simone Weil, she said, "Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity." And as a result of that, that's the hospitality piece. And I think, let's not forget that the word hospital is in the word hospitality, that our questions and our attention can actually be a form of healing that we offer to other people. When we think of hospitality, we often think of, I don't know, making a fresh pie or laying out doilies and sweeping the house before someone comes over. That can be part of it. But the real definition of hospitality is making new people feel comfortable in new situations. And so, what do good questions do? They help people who might feel new or an outsider feel like they're an insider. And I believe that's one of the beautiful benefits of questions where people say, "Man, thank you. No one has ever asked me that." Or "I feel seen. Wow, you really want to care. You care enough to know what I'm thinking." That is an unbelievable gift that we can give to others as a form of hospitality.
Laura Dugger: (8:36 - 8:55)
And I think that illuminates what you even say up front in your book, that you do believe that these questions can change our life and the lives of those around us, and especially through this powerful book that you've written. So, can you elaborate on that claim?
J.R. Briggs: (8:56 - 10:33)
Yeah, the dimensions of your life expand or contract depending upon the questions that you ask. So, when we refrain from asking good questions, our world gets smaller. And when we start to ask better questions, and more frequently, our worlds begin to expand. And so, what I tell people is we don't have a shortage of information. We have a shortage of wisdom and curiosity and wonder. And so, what we need to kindle in that is that desire for and that ability to ask the right questions at the right time for the right reason to the right people.
And if we want more information, we should just Google it. But if what we're after is wisdom and connection and engagement, we need questions. And questions are, I think we all would admit, Laura, questions are important. I don't think that we would realize just how powerful they actually are. And so, the goal of the book was to unleash and wake up the sleeping giants that exist and say, this can be used for good. There's so many, again, we don't have a shortage of information. But asking good questions is a lost art. And the goal is to try to help people realize its power, that it's more accessible. They're free. They can be used at any time. They don't have a shelf life. But we just need to cultivate the desire for it and then have some skills to lean in, because it really can be such an unbelievable gift. The questions that we ask often reveal the values that we hold. And so that's another way that we can press into that as well.
Laura Dugger: (10:34 - 10:49)
Okay, so let's say that the desire is there. Maybe for all of us, probably the skill is a little lacking. How can we begin to get a little bit better at this or just get started with asking better questions today?
J.R. Briggs: (10:49 - 14:18)
Yeah, well, we got to start, Laura, by admitting that there are a lot of obstacles that exist that our culture puts in front of us to make it hard to do that. One is we're in an attention-seeking age, right? I mean, the joke says enough about me, what do you think about me? And so, because we live in the social media, look at me, look at me reality that we're in, it's really hard because questions are the opposite. I'm putting the spotlight on you rather than on my own life. But we also are in a culture of great efficiency, and so questions feel inefficient. They feel really inefficient, like it slows things down. How many of us have been in a meeting and we're about to get up and someone says, "Any questions?" And someone, "Oh," and we just say, "No, no, no, we were just about to leave, you're slowing us down." And so that in the business world and in sales, that's the number one thing is questions. We got stuff to do and things to sell. But if we can just slow down, it's better.
But those are some of the obstacles that exist. So, if we're assuming we have curiosity, we have wisdom, we have humility, and we have courage, which are the four components. If those are there, then there are some things that we can engage in that can help us and several practices, like the simplest practice we can do when we hear a good question, write it down. A lot of people feel like two things. They have to come up with all the questions themselves. You don't. I love questions. I'm pretty good at questions, but I don't generate all my questions. I've read them on billboards or heard them on a podcast or overheard somebody in line at Starbucks behind me. And you go, "Man, that's a really good question. Write it down." We think we're going to remember later, Laura, and that's the second thing. We won't. We have to write it down. And I just encourage people, open up the notes section of your phone and just have something on there that says great questions. When you hear of one, think of one, read of one in a good novel, write it on the list. You can always return to it later. So, just awareness, number one, that my radar is up, listening for good questions, can be a great start.
And then also just to reflect later to say, "What was the best question I asked today or in that conversation or in that meeting or over dinner with my family? What was the best question I asked?" So, that's a little bit of reflection, but also preparation. Anytime we go into a meeting, anytime we go into any sort of connection, even if it's coffee with a friend, to always see if I can come with two questions ahead of time. Now, sometimes I write them down, sometimes I don't. I may not even get a chance to ask them, but just coming prepared where I say, "Oh, I'm meeting with my friend, Sam. Oh, Sam's dad just had significant surgery. So, here's an important question. Sam, how's your dad doing? And how are you doing as you care for your dad?" It's a little bit of preparation. It's not an hour. I'm just spending five minutes on my drive to the coffee shop to say, "My first question is going to be, Sam, how's your dad? And how are you doing caring for your dad?" So, just a little bit more thought. It doesn't require three times the amount of effort. Sometimes it's just five or 10% more effort and intentionality that can improve our question asking.
Laura Dugger: (14:19 - 16:29)
So much thoughtfulness there. Appreciate that.
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Clearly J.R., Jesus has been a role model for asking questions. So, can you contrast what you describe as Jesus's field trips that he takes his disciples on versus the way that you view Sunday mornings in a lot of churches in America? Can you kind of contrast those two?
J.R. Briggs: (16:29 - 18:42)
Yeah, oftentimes when I'm talking to pastors or leaders, faith leaders, I remind them of this. But yeah, Jesus loved to take his listeners on three field trips, three kinds. First one, he took them on physical field trips. We see that where Jesus says, "You know, look at the birds of the air, look at the lilies of the field," or "Look at the woman putting in two mites in the temple treasury." Life is a classroom. And so, he loved taking people on literal field trips.
Number two, he took them on emotional field trips by telling them stories, not in abstract ways of thinking, but the kingdom of God is like a woman kneading dough. It's like a fisherman who caught fish. It's like a father with two sons. And I think we're wrapped up in that when we watch a good movie, and we cry and laugh and we're scared. Those are all because a beautiful story did something to us. It took us on some sort of emotional field trip.
And then third is a mental field trip, which we're talking about here by asking questions. Jesus asked a ton of questions. And as a result of that, got people thinking in new ways. Now, if the way, the truth and the life, if anyone had the right to just give answers, it would be Jesus. But instead, he chose to ask a lot of questions. And so those three field trips, literal by going on walks, getting outside of a classroom, the mental field trip of asking questions and the emotional field trips of telling stories. Jesus did that all the time. Once you know that and you read the gospels, you'll see it everywhere.
The problem is, as you were referring to, Laura, on Sunday mornings, what do we do? We sit people in a church in pews. Almost all of the teaching or formation happens in the same room. Instead of telling stories, we give abstract information. And instead of asking questions, we just give answers. And then we sit around and wonder, "Why is no one changing?" And my gentle encouragement is, what would it look like if we actually learned to teach others the way Jesus actually taught? Imagine that. So, it's a bit of a stretch because culturally we're kind of drawn in to the way we've always done it in church. And yet oftentimes Jesus did almost the opposite of the way in which we teach today.
Laura Dugger: (18:44 - 18:55)
And so, if you see that as an opposite, do you have any practical ideas of just a small tweak that we could make on Sunday mornings to be more like Jesus?
J.R. Briggs: (18:56 - 20:32)
Sure. I always try to say, is there any way I can get people's bodies or their hearts up out of the seat? So, "Hey, I want you to stand up and turn to the person next to you." Or, "Hey, we're going to move around the room." Some of you say, "What? We would never do that at our church." And I would say, take a risk. Jesus did all sorts of things that surprise people. So, how can I get their hearts and their bodies up out of their seat? Number one.
Number two, can I tell a few more stories than I have in the past in my teaching or preaching or Sunday morning? And then also, can I engage with questions by asking them questions at the beginning? Can I leave them with some reflection questions in the bulletin or on the website the next week? Or can I actually have them asking questions of each other or of the text itself? And so oftentimes, why do I feel like I'm the one that has to speak the whole time when I'm preaching? What if instead I allow them to ask questions of each other, of God, and even of myself? And sometimes when I preach, I allow the last five or 10 minutes for people to ask questions about the text to myself and everyone else. Now, is that a change? Yeah. Would that freak out some churches? Maybe. But it can be a way that people walk away and say, "Wow, I learned, I was engaged, I was formed, and I encountered God in a new way that I haven't in the past." Which is the whole goal, that we don't just learn more about the Bible, is that we know the God of the Bible. That's the whole point of why we gather together as a church.
Laura Dugger: (20:33 - 20:46)
And that would be so memorable. But also, as you're speaking about stories, are you willing to share the story of one of the times that you asked a question, and it turned out better than you could have ever asked or hoped for?
J.R. Briggs: (20:47 - 22:27)
Yeah. I could think of several, but sometimes just asking people, "Why is that?" Just as a follow-up. It's amazing what can spill out. And I go, "Oh, that confronted my biases. That confronted my assumptions and what I thought about them." And so sometimes just asking some of that has been incredibly helpful to just ask that follow-up question.
I won't tell the whole story that I recounted in the book, but oftentimes when there are tears, it was Charles Spurgeon that said that tears are like liquid prayers. And so, when people are showing some emotion, I sometimes will say to them, even if they're not a follower of Jesus, even if they're not religious, "I'm curious. It's been said that tears are liquid prayers. Can you put words to the prayers that your face is praying right now?" And I've had some of the most unbelievable conversations where people can identify the prayers that their face is praying. And even in my own life, where I just step back and go, "Why am I, why was I so moved by that novel? Why was I so moved by that movie? Or what just happened in front of me? Or why, where are these tears coming from?" As Frederick Buechner said, we'd be best to pay attention to our tears. And so that question of what are the liquid prayers, can I put words to the prayer that my face is praying has been an unbelievably meaningful and eye-opening thing for me and also with people that I've been with.
Laura Dugger: (22:29 - 22:37)
Will you also share about how you arrived at asking two questions that have opened numerous doors for you?
J.R. Briggs: (22:38 - 25:21)
Yeah. Yeah. When I was in college, I had the privilege of studying in Israel for the semester. This is fall of my junior year. Absolutely loved it. And our class was on a four-day field trip up around the Sea of Galilee. One night I was down by the lake and happened to notice as the sun was about to set that there was a big fishing vessel that had just come in. And I had always wanted to go fishing on the Sea of Galilee, not just take a boat, not just see fishermen, but like be on the boat and fish with fishermen. I don't even love fishing myself, but I just wanted to experience what Jesus and his disciples experienced on the lake.
And there was a big industrial ship that came in. They brought in their day's catch. And I thought, "Oh, I should ask them if I can go fishing with them." And Laura, and then, you know, the realistic brain in me said, "Why would they ever allow a college, American college student and a study abroad program to go fishing with them tomorrow?" And I had these two questions that hit me, Laura. "Well, what's the worst they could say? No, or heck no, or get out of here. You're crazy." And number two, "Can I handle that? If they were to say that." Those two questions, I thought, "You know, I can handle it now. Let me ask what's the worst he could say. Let me ask."
So, I went up and I said, "Excuse me, can I talk to your captain?" And they said, "Menachem is over here." So, I introduced myself to him and I said, "Menachem, I've always wanted to go fishing on the Sea of Galilee. I'll pay you $50. If I can go fishing for the day, use me as, as I mean, any work me to death. If you want, like I'm here, I just want to." And he looked at me, he said, "I don't want your money." He said, "Join me tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. And you can come fishing with us." And I walked away and went, "Unbelievable. My dream is coming true." And I had an unbelievable day, but I realized I can't say no for someone else. What's the worst they could say? No. Can I just ask and handle it if they said no? Yep, I can handle it. Those two questions, Laura, have shaped me immensely throughout my lifetime. I've really, I've done that in a lot of different ways. And a lot of times people say no, and I can handle that. But a lot of times people said yes. And some doors have opened simply because I asked. And I actually think of that verse often, Laura, where it says you do not have because you do not ask. It's not name it and claim it prosperity gospel. But we just have to realize that sometimes we just need to ask to put ourselves out there and see what people say.
Laura Dugger: (25:23 - 25:55)
That is so good. And I have applied those questions since reading that in your book, even as I reach out to ask you if you would do two recordings. So, I'm so grateful that that you said yes, I'm delighted that today's not our only conversation. But I'm curious also, J.R., when you had that experience, a lot of us may not ever get to go fish on the Sea of Galilee. So, did you learn anything that brought the Bible to life or anything about Jesus or anything that you can share with us from that incredible experience?
J.R. Briggs: (25:55 - 27:37)
Oh, there's so many, but I'll limit it to one. When we started out that morning, the sea was so calm. I mean, it was like glass. It was beautiful. The sun was rising, not a cloud in the sky. And it was great. But I've always wondered these like storms. You know, the Sea of Galilee is not a sea. It's a lake. It's 10 miles by six miles. It looks like a harp. And that's why it's called Lake Kinneret. In Hebrew, that means harp. So, it's harp lake is the way that we could call it. But I thought it's still a lake. How can there be storms that would have professional fishermen that would be screaming, thinking they were going to die? How is that possible?
Well, wouldn't you know it, Laura? As beautiful as it was, the clouds rolled in. And then later that afternoon, there was a squall of a storm. I have never been in more intense in my life. And it happened right there. Now we're in a maybe two-ton, three-ton fishing vessel. But even that, we had to go below deck because it was so brutal. The waves, the wind, we couldn't see more than 10 feet in front of us. And I thought, "Ah, now I get it. If I'm just in a wooden boat with my fellow, you know, disciples here, I can see why this could get a little panicky." And that was, I think, a little God wink for me to be able to experience both the peace and calm, but also this treacherous storm and go, "Ah, now I won't read my Bible the same again when I hear about the, you know, the disciples freaking out with the storm or seeing Jesus walk on the water approaching them." So, that's one of many, but that sticks out to me a great deal that I got to experience a very intense storm.
Laura Dugger: (27:38 - 28:27)
That is so incredible. Even just going back, so those two questions that you were willing to ask led to this incredible experience. And now people from around the world get to benefit from the lessons that you learned at that time. So, I think you're giving us so much encouragement for asking questions.
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What happens to our brain or within our brain when we're asking or being asked a question?
J.R. Briggs: (28:28 - 30:19)
Yeah, this was an incredibly fun part of the research for me was what does this do neurobiologically to us? And so, what neurologists have found is when they put nodes all over your brain to kind of see how the brain activity happens, when you're given information, your brain lights up. But what they found is when someone is asked a question, your brain explodes like fireworks, the synapses that are firing, and it just lights up like crazy, like fireworks in the night. And one of the things they said, as much as we think we can multitask, we can't. We do a lot of switching, task switching, but not multitasking. But they said what happens is they use the word hijack. You can hijack someone's brain when you actually are asking a question of someone, even if it's for two seconds.
And so, if I were to ask your listeners, Laura, "What are the color of the shoes you're wearing right now?" Whether your listeners liked it or not, I just hijacked their brain for a split second there, and they went, "What are the color of my shoes?" And so that's immense amount of power to, quote unquote, hijack someone's brain. So, we need to use that power wisely. But it's an immense amount of power that we can have when we ask someone a question, not just give them an answer, which I love when current neurobiological research matches up with scripture and with the way Jesus taught. How did Jesus teach? A ton of questions. What happened? He engaged with people. They participated with him. They were forced to learn and be participants, not just talking theoretically about faith. And I thought, isn't that just like Jesus? He knew how our brains are wired. And so, he uses questions as a way of maximum connection, challenge, engagement, and formation.
Laura Dugger: (30:20 - 30:43)
Wow. And you've cultivated, like you say, this holy curiosity. So, I am curious for you, J.R., when you're in a conversation and you find yourself asking question after question, have you been in a situation like this where they don't reciprocate, they don't ask any questions back? And how do you handle that internally and externally?
J.R. Briggs: (30:44 - 32:41)
Yeah, it's hard because we live in a culture that hasn't modeled that well to ask good questions. And sometimes it's been hard. And I admit that sometimes there's a sense of loneliness. When I have a lunch meeting and my wife will say, "How was your lunch meeting today?" We have a code word where I say either waiter or waitress. And it means the waiter or waitress came and took my plate away because I was done with my meal before they had taken one or two bites of their food. And oftentimes that happens where we leave a meal and we realize, "I don't think I was asked a single question this whole lunch." Or we go to a dinner party, no one asked me a single question. And that can be really hard.
And I love asking people questions. And it's not like I'm just ramming it down their throats to ask question after question like Elf with his brother walking through Central Park where he's just rattling off question after question. I was giving pause, I was taking a bite of my food, allowing them to ask a question or two, and they never did. And sometimes people say, "Well, I don't really know, I'm not good at questions." And I say, one of the simplest things you can do is what I call the way question, W-A-Y. It's just to say, "What about you?" I've been talking. What about you? To just hit the ball back over the net and to allow us to engage in some conversational pickleball. It's been on my side, let me hit it. Now it's on your side and you hit it back. That's how all healthy relationships exist. And so, it's been a little disappointing at times to realize you can go, and I'm sure you and others have experienced that. That's really hard. And to have people that can just say, "What about you? What do you think? Have you ever experienced that?" Or "I have another question for you." That's how healthy relationships are cultivated when there's that back and forth in conversation.
Laura Dugger: (32:42 - 32:51)
Okay. And so, if we want to cultivate that back-and-forth conversation, can you just share a few more tips for ways that we can level up our questions?
J.R. Briggs: (32:52 - 34:24)
Sure. Yeah. There's a unique, almost universal principle when it comes to question asking. If you ask a generic unthoughtful question, you will almost always get a generic unthoughtful answer. "How are you?" "Fine." "How's your weekend?" "Good." But if you ask a thoughtful, specific, engaging question, you almost always get a thoughtful, specific, engaging answer. It's as predictable as a communist election. It's amazing how that works, where we can just, if we can just level up.
So, if a lazy question would be, "How was your weekend?" I encourage people to say, what would 10 or 15 percent of a more thoughtful, specific, or focused question be? So, you could say, "Of your whole weekend, how would you describe your weekend in two or three adjectives?" That's a little bit different than just, "How was your weekend?" Or, "Hey, how are you doing?" That's good. You might say, "What has been the most interesting thing about your day so far?" It just takes a little bit more intentionality. When you ask it that way, you won't get the fine, good. You'll get the, you know, "I had a really interesting sales meeting today at 10 a.m. You know, I bumped into my neighbor, and we had the best conversation at the mailbox." Those are the kinds of answers you get because we ask the more specific, thoughtful question. We'll get more specific and thoughtful answers. So, that's what I encourage people to do. Just level up to be just a little bit more pointed by 10 or 15 percent and see what happens.
Laura Dugger: (34:26 - 34:40)
Okay. So, hopefully we're all going to put this into practice. But then also, if we have children in our home, what can we do to be teaching them this same goal of reciprocity and asking great questions?
J.R. Briggs: (34:40 - 37:02)
Yes. I'm so glad you brought this up, Laura. There's so much that we can do. I try to do this. We try to do this with our kids when they were younger. Our kids are 19 and 16 now and we still engage in good questions with them. But when they were little, we would do things. I would crawl into bed with each of them at bedtime and we would do question of the night. And so, I would say, "You get to ask dad any question you want and then I get to ask you any question that you want." And so, age appropriate, you know, what's your favorite ice cream color or ice cream flavor or your favorite color? But sometimes they would pull out some really fascinating ones. Like one time, my youngest son said, "Dad, what does God smell like?" And it just made me laugh. I just thought, what a great question from a five- or six-year-old about that. And so just being intentional there at bedtime has been really good.
Car time is really important. And I really try to see if I can ask some questions that I can't ask in other places because now I've got their full attention. We're in the car together. And even as my sons are now older, when they're in the car together, something about staring out the windshield together to be able to talk through some things has been really good. It could be about school, could be about life, could be something trivial, but to know that this is a place where we can talk. And so, car time, bedtime, and the last one I'll give is dinner time. We have a big chalk wall next to our dining room table. And we'll just randomly put up questions, thoughtful questions. And then we'll sometimes say after prayer, "Okay, boys, when they were little, you know, you each get to pick one question off the wall that we talk about tonight." And it just became a real easy way. And you can make up one if you want, or there are questions here. We also found a deck of cards that actually had questions on each one. It was like a questions deck. And so, we'll say, "Great, like you can pick off the wall, you can make up your own, or just pick a question that's in the deck." And just doing that where everybody got a chance to share around the table became such a way, such a rich conversation but a way to remind them questions are okay, encouraged, and a wonderful part of being a part of a family.
Laura Dugger: (37:03 - 37:32)
Those are such great ideas. I love that and that we can implement some of that right away. But as we're starting to wind our time down together, I would love to hear one more story about a time that a question dramatically changed the outcome of a friendly gathering that you write about on the back patio of a Capitol Hill home in Washington, D.C. Yeah, I remember reading this story, Laura, and I was so moved.
J.R. Briggs: (37:32 - 39:52)
I was moved to tears that I ran over to my wife and I said, "Listen to this story." And we both just sat there crying. Yeah, these families were on the back porch on a wonderful summer evening enjoying some stuff on the grill. And all of a sudden a gunman came up behind one of the teenage girls and held a gun to her head and said, "Nobody move, give me your money or I'm going to shoot." Everyone froze, rightfully so, the terror that they experienced. And one woman just blurted out the first thing that came to her mind. She said, "Why don't you sit down and have some wine with us?" Which is not something that has ever come to my mind if someone were to walk in and rob me. And sure enough, he put his gun in his belt and sat down and had some wine. And he said, "Boy, this is really good wine." And I said, "Why don't you enjoy some more to eat?" And then afterwards, she said, "Can I give you a hug?" And the guy was totally startled. Yeah. And then afterwards, everyone else decided to give him a hug. And as they enjoyed food, you know, they're all tense and not sure what to do or what's going on. At the end, he said, "Can I have a group hug together?" And then he slipped out the back and even the glass, the wine glass that he had, it wasn't even broken. He just set it up right behind the back gate.
And I just was so moved by that. Like, "Do you want a glass of wine? Do you want a hug?" Not things that would come to my mind, but it was so jolting and surprising. I think it humanized him. And before he left, the robber said, "I think I've come to rob the wrong house tonight." It's amazing what a question can do. That was a question of immense hospitality. You're welcome here. That's the last thing that this robber ever expected. So, I just love that story. I love that story because it reminds us once again how powerful questions actually are.
Laura Dugger: (39:53 - 40:09)
And I think it illustrates at the heart of questions is love. And that motivates so much of the work that you get to do, J.R. So, can you just share a little bit more about the work you do get to do and share how we can be connected after this conversation?
J.R. Briggs: (40:10 - 41:07)
Sure. Yeah. I've been a pastor for 15 years, but in 2011, I started what's called Kairos Partnerships. And it was passionate about leaders because leadership can be lonely, overwhelming, and sometimes leaders feel ill-equipped. And so actually our organization was started based on three questions. Who pastors the pastor? Who leads the leader? Who shepherds the shepherd? So, we work with some pastors, but we work with all sorts of entrepreneurs and businesspeople and Chick-fil-A operators and college presidents and division one men's basketball coaches, anyone who's following Jesus, but leading others. And so, we do that through coaching, through consulting, through writing, speaking, spiritual direction. And so, our team, I have a wonderful team, and the team really walks alongside of leaders who are wanting to be equipped so they can lead with clarity and confidence moving forward.
Laura Dugger: (41:08 - 41:27)
I love that. Well, we will put a link to your website and the show notes for today's episode, but J.R., you may be familiar. We are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
J.R. Briggs: (41:28 - 42:03)
One of the prayers that I pray regularly is, "Lord, would you grant me wisdom, courage, and compassion?" And all three of those are important because if I have wisdom and courage, but no compassion, I'm careless. If I have wisdom and compassion, but no courage, I'm riskless. And if I have compassion and courage, but no wisdom, that can be reckless. But if I have wisdom, courage, and compassion together, that's priceless. And so, I just try to pray that regularly because I say, "Lord, I want to be a wise, compassionate, courageous person for you." And I would encourage your listeners to pray that prayer for wisdom, courage, and compassion as well.
Laura Dugger: (42:05 - 42:20)
Those are great words that I would use to describe you, J.R. And you are humble and warm and engaging. And I have greatly appreciated your book. I've already told people it's my favorite book that I've read in recent history.
J.R. Briggs: (42:20 - 42:22)
So, thank you.
Laura Dugger: (42:22 - 42:31)
Well, thank you. That's very kind of you. Yes, very easy to compliment it. But thank you for being my guest, and I look forward to hosting you again next time.
J.R. Briggs: (42:31 - 42:33)
Sounds great. Looking forward to that as well.
Laura Dugger: (42:35 - 45:49)
One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.
This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.
Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.
And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.
First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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