172. Intentional Marriage and Parenting with Drew and Sara Anthony
Psalm 16:11 (NIV) "You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand."
*Transcription Below*
Drew and Sara Anthony will celebrate 28 years of marriage this year. They have 4 children ranging in age from 16-24. In addition, they run a house flipping business together. Drew and Sara recently discovered a passion for sailing. They combined their love for sailing and heart for helping strengthen marriages by leading marriage sailing adventures. They’ve seen God at work throughout their whole marriage and for that they are so grateful.
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
Were there any traditions or habits you established as an engaged or newlywed couple that set you up for success?
As you reflect back, what are some things you did during the season of raising little children that you now see the payoff as they are becoming adults?
How have you kept the romance alive through all these stages of marriage?
Sara's Blog Post on Her Goal Group
Marriage Themed Podcast Episodes on The Savvy Sauce:
A God-Honoring Relationship Between a Mother-in-Law and Daughter-in-Law with Annie Chapman
Fostering a Fun, Healthy Sex Life with your Spouse with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Ways to Deepen Your Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Douglas Rosenau
Ten Common Questions About Sex, Shared Through a Biblical Worldview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Easy Changes to Enhance Your Sexual Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner
Hope For Treating Pelvic Pain with Tracey LeGrand
How to Align Your Finances with Your Values with Natalie Taylor
Managing Family, Career, and Health with Leslie Neslage
Reflecting Jesus in Our Relationships with Rach Kincaid
Treatment for Sexual Issues with Certified Sex Therapist, Emma Schmidt
Talking With Your Kids About Sex with Brian and Alison Sutter
Gender Differences and Common Conflict in Relationships with Certified Sex Therapist, Vickie George
Practical Steps for Discipling Our Children with Licensed Professional Counselor, Jen Rathmell
Natural Aphrodisiacs with Christian Certified Sex Therapist, Dr. Douglas Rosenau
Practical Parenting Tools with Author and Speaker, Sue Heimer
Understanding and Utilizing the Enneagram in Your Life with Enneagram Coach, Beth McCord
Deep Dive into the Enneagram with Your Enneagram Coach, Beth McCord
Pain and Joy in Sexual Intimacy with Psychologist and Certified Sex Therapist, Dr. Jessica McCleese
Understanding Gender Differences in Marriage with Dr. Ted and Ang Bryant
Marriage and Motherhood with Counselor, Wife, and Mother to 5, Aja Duncan
Practical Life Tips with Blogger, Rach Kincai
Marital Communication and Intentional Family Life with Author, Speaker, and Podcaster, Susan Seay
Simple Solutions to Help You Prepare For, Enrich, or Save Your Marriage with Dr. Matthew Turvey
Thriving at Work, Home, and Life with Author, Blogger, Podcaster, and Business Owner, Crystal Paine
Radical Business and Radical Parenting with Gary & Marla Ringger, Founders of Lifesong for Orphans
Hormones and Body Image with Certified Sex Therapist, Vickie George
Traveling with Your Family with Katie Mueller
Ordering Your Priorities with Kat Lee
5 Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman
Four Personality Types with Dale Wilsher
Visionary Parenting and Grand-Parenting with Dr. Rob Rienow
Applying Business Strategies to Your Home Management with Susan Seay
Passion Pursuit with Dr. Juli Slatter
Technology and Parenting with Arlene Pellicane
The Enneagram Explained with Sarajane Case of Enneagram & Coffee
Understanding Men and Women Better with Shaunti Feldhahn
Female Orgasm with Sue Goldstein
Erectile Dysfunction, Premature Ejaculation, and Treatments Available with Dr. Irwin Goldstein
Understanding and Delighting in Our Differences with Bill & Pam Farrel
Guiding Our Children Through Their Emotions with Julie Roth
Thriving with Kids at Home During Quarantine with Amanda Leman
Turn Ons, Turn Offs, and Savoring Sex in Marriage with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Making Family Memories with Jessica Smartt
Desire Discrepancy in Marriage with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Ways to Enjoy Summer with Your Family with Krista Gilbert
Answering Listener's Questions About Sex with Kelli Willard
Communication and Healthy Conflict Resolution with Kelley Gray
Anatomy of an Affair with Dave Carder
Powerful Purpose of Introverts with Holley Gerth
Building Love Together in Blended Families with Ron Deal
Supernatural Restoration Story with Bob and Audrey Meisner
Living Intentionally with Shunta Grant
Romantic Love in Marriage with Dr. Willard Harvey
Parenting All Temperaments with Jenny Boyett
Healthy Minds, Marriages, and Sex Lives with Drs. Scott and Melissa Symington
Female Pornography Addiction and Meaningful Recovery with Crystal Renaud Day
Rhythms of Renewal with Gabe and Rebekah Lyons
Parenting 0-18 with Daniel Huerta
Building Lasting Relationships with Clarence and Brenda Shuler
Healthy Ways for Females to Increase Sexual Enjoyment with Tracey LeGrand
Pornography Healing for Spouses with Geremy Keeton
Sexual Sin Recovery for You and Your Spouse (Part Two)
Our Brain’s Role in Sexual Intimacy with Angie Landry
Intentional Questions to Ask Our Kids with Susan Seay
Biblical Response to Emotionally Destructive Relationships with Leslie Vernick
Connection and Correction in Parenting with Chad Hayenga
Temperaments and Power of Words in Parenting with Kathleen Edelman
Discovering God's Design for Romance with Sharon Jaynes
Nine Ways to Connect with God with Gary Thomas
Sex in Marriage and Its Positive Effects with Francie Winslow, Part 1
Science and Art of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage, Part 2
Making Love in Marriage with Debra Fileta
Beneficial Rhythms in Marriage with Chris and Jenni Graebe
Inspiring Perspective in Parenting with Kay Wyma
Mutually Pleasing Sex in Marriage with Gary Thomas
Patreon-Only Marriage Related Episodes:
Patreon 7 Intentional Family Life with Podcasters, Heather Toews and Heidi Bolt
Patreon 9 Healthy Relationships with Our Friends and Our Spouse with Author and Speaker, Sue Heimer
Patreon 16 Enjoy a Thriving Marriage with Dr. Matthew Turvey
Patreon 19 Applying Personality Training to Parenting with Dale Wilsher
Patreon 20 Personal Stories of God's Provision with Hope Ware
Patreon 21 Leading in Parenting with Arlene Pellicane
Patreon 22 Vision in Motherhood while Parenting a Child with Special Needs
Patreon 23 Her Desires and His Desires in the Bedroom with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Patreon 26 Holy Sex with Dr. Juli Slattery
Patreon 28 Protecting Your Marriage Against Unfaithfulness with Dave Carder
Patreon 29 Remaining Sexually Engaged Through The Years with Dr. Michael Sytsm
Patreon 34 Lead with Questions in Parenting with Stacy Bellward
Marriage Related Articles:
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Fun Daily and Weekly Marital Enrichment Habits
Fun Monthly and Yearly Marital Enrichment Habits
How Do You Know It’s Worthwhile?
Marriage Scripture I am Loving
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How Does Your Family of Origin Affect Your Marriage?
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Wise and Practical Marriage Tips
Our Wise and Foolish List in Marriage *Bonus Content When You Join Our Email List*
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at Winshapemarriage.org. That's WinshapeMarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.
Drew and Sara Anthony are my guests today, and they're going to be celebrating 28 years of marriage later this year. They have four children, and they also have a house-flipping business that they run together.
They recently discovered this passion they have for sailing, and they've combined that love for sailing and their heart for helping strengthen marriages by leading marriage sailing adventures. This is where our paths originally intersected, and I've written about this sailing adventure on one of the articles at thesavvysauce.com. But I'm so grateful that that experience led me to cross paths with Drew and Sara, and I could tell that they were an amazing couple, that if we lived closer, I would have wanted to meet with them as a mentor couple. [00:01:33] So I invited them to become guests on the show, and today we're going to talk about all things marriage.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Drew and Sara.
Good to be here.
Sara Anthony: Really glad to be here, yeah. We feel welcomed.
Laura Dugger: We're so excited to host you. Let's just begin with a story. How did the two of you meet and fall in love?
Sara Anthony: I was graduating high school and Drew was a sophomore in college. We had some mutual friends, and he had come to visit them, best summer ever, because all of our mutual friends, we all hung out and went to the beach and played beach volleyball and went on the sea dues and all the things.
During that time, we discovered that maybe it was a little more than friendship. And that was the beginning of our relationship. We dated for about three years. We were engaged in there for a while as well. [00:02:34] Drew ended up staying and going to the same college as me, and we were youth leaders together, and that kind of just put us on a trajectory of later marriage and kids and all the things.
Laura Dugger: What are some of the challenges that you two have faced, and how did you get through those hard times?
Sara Anthony: Yeah. I mean, obviously, in 28 years, there's always going to be challenges, whether it's within your relationship or issues with your kids. I think for us, one of the main things is that we're grounded in our faith, and we have that not only together but individually. So being able to individually seek the Lord, get guidance, as well as coming together, praying together.
There's been times with having four kids, and they've all either gone through the teenage years or in it, that in and of itself will put you on your knees. [00:03:35] We've had circumstances where we have had to fervently pray and fast at times for just different things that we are seeing in our kids that we're like, Oh, Lord, we need you in this moment. It has also, over time, and as we've seen the faithfulness of the Lord and Him answer those prayers, and it not only strengthens our relationship with Him but also, I would say, with each other is a benefit of that.
Drew: Yeah. For example, I was a youth pastor in Michigan for 10 years. During my time as a youth pastor, I was under the leadership of probably five different pastors, five different leaders, because every pastor, for example, brings in their style of leadership. They bring in how they want to see their ministry run. And a lot of times, as a youth pastor, you just feel a lot of pressure. [00:04:37]
We weren't really sure what God had. After doing it for 10 years, we're at a stage where we're like, Okay, how long are we going to do this? God, what do you want from us? It was at a stage when my dad, all of a sudden, came down with meningitis, and he was in ICU, and we were in Ohio and trying to figure out. I felt like God was leading us to do something different. We weren't really sure what, but we knew that God had something out there for us.
We were on our way home from Ohio after seeing my dad, and Sara just mentioned to me, she goes, "You know, I feel like we're supposed to move to Georgia." I had felt that for a while, but Sara, being from Michigan, and she has a bunch of sisters, strong family ties in Michigan, and I just felt like, you know, "Hon, I could never ask you to do that, but I was waiting on just seeing if the Lord would speak to your heart." [00:05:38]
So that had just happened right after I was kind of seeking the Lord on that. And so we ended up moving to Georgia and kind of leaving that job, not really sure. My brother was a senior pastor in Georgia. And so we went to Georgia without really knowing what we were going to do.
Sara Anthony: Yeah, we didn't know all the details of how it was going to iron out. And it's funny because we think back on that now, and having adult children like, "Oh my goodness, if they would have come to us in the same scenario, we would have been like, no, you don't leave a job before you have another one."
So it really was a huge step of faith for us, but one that we totally had a peace about, and one that I typically wouldn't have had peace about because it was so far outside of our comfort zone. But I think in that step of faith, we also saw the hand of God and saw just Him going before us with a quick sale of our home, with some property that we had owned and thought was going to be a quick sale, and it wasn't for several years, and then all of a sudden when we made the decision to move to Georgia, that land sold. [00:06:50] So just different things like that where we had that sense of God saying, "I'm in this, I'm with you."
Drew: You know, I was thinking about that stage because, I mean, our time in youth ministry was incredible. I mean, we just saw God do some real cool things in the inner city, in the youth group. I did a lot with junior high students. And so there was great things. And sometimes we can get a little comfortable. You know, maybe there was that aspect of our life where God allowed certain things in our life to kind of poke us and move us and stir us.
Because since we've been in Georgia, I mean, there's been a lot of amazing things that have happened, and God's used the move to really do some cool things in our life.
Laura Dugger: I love that story because I think it just illustrates how it wasn't until the other side of your obedience that you got a clearer picture, and it definitely required faith. But how gracious of Him to supply the peace prior to moving. [00:07:53]
Sara Anthony: Yes, that's for sure. I mean, I just want to reiterate that, too, just because it felt out of character for me, even when I would say to my sister, "I know when I say this story, it sounds crazy. I can hear that, and yet I have a peace that surpasses all understanding." And so we continued to move forward with it.
Laura Dugger: And now what are some of your core values and priorities as a married couple?
Sara Anthony: Well, I mean, I would say that we, for sure, are founded on biblical truths. That's always been something that we cling to. When I think of words that I hope would describe us, one would be legacy, that we are leaving a legacy for our children and for our children's children.
We were gifted the just generous hard work of our parents who changed the trajectory and introduced us to Jesus and grew us up in His truths. [00:09:00] So we recognize that to whom much is given, much is required, and so we have done our best to pass that on to our children. I know when we have talked about words that we want to describe us.
Generosity is another word that when people think of us, that we would not just with financially, but with our time, that we would be thoughtful and giving.
Drew: We take our job as parents very seriously, too. There are actions that we do and goals that we set for ourselves that kind of promote us to just that relationship, that parental relationship with our kids, to where it's not just kind of we want to make sure that they fulfill a set of rules that we lay out. But we want a relationship with them, personal time with them, one-on-one time with each kid. That's very important for us.
When they mess up, that they know that we still love them and care about them and we notice them, and that we are cheering them on. [00:10:03] Yes, there may be consequences for their actions, but to be able to respond to those actions with just a heart of love and discipline. I think we take that very seriously.
And we take our relationship with each other very seriously, too. I think over the years, we're not investing less in each other and more in our kids. I think over the years, we've grown to invest more in our relationship as a married couple in our attempts to make our marriage relationship stronger. And so that's huge for us. That's a focus for us.
Sara Anthony: Yeah. And it trickles down to our relationship with our kids. If we're, Drew and I are strong together in our relationship, that is, gives, I think, a sense of security for our kids as well.
Laura Dugger: I'd love to press in a little bit further on that. I think that sounds like such wise living. How did the two of you actually do this with practical or replicable tips? [00:11:04]
Sara Anthony: Yeah. So when our kids were little, there is always a sense of survival at some level, right? So we established early on just like a solid bedtime. We had some time in the evening together. We also had a rule early on, like, if mom and dad's bedroom door is shut, you have to knock. Simple things like that.
As they got older, prioritizing just one-on-one time was easier as far as a date night. Now we did date nights when they were younger as well, but it obviously does become a little bit easier to have that as more routine as they get older and you're not having to hire a babysitter every week or trade services with another friend, which are all great ideas.
Drew: I'll say that, you know, Sara is a very strong, disciplined leader as well. [00:12:06] And so she's a checklist maker. She's very intentional. She's very disciplined. I remember her reading a number of books on parenting, you know? Because with four kids, you're bound to have at least one strong-willed kid, right? So just reading those books on how to best parent kids in different situations.
That was something I think that she took to heart because then she would share that with me too, and so we'd kind of work on that together. Because, I mean, it is tough. There are very tough times when you're dealing with kids that don't want to go to their church Sunday school class or they're being defiant at home and they keep on leaving their bed when they're getting up or it's nap time. After the 10th time, you're kind of like, "Oh, what am I going to do?"
Then now at the stage we're in now with teenagers, with Sara being goal-oriented, she really does a great job really having a goal to prepare dinner for at least two, three times a week. [00:13:07] And so our kids know that, you know, at such and such a times, 5:30, 6 o'clock, we're going to have a meal every Monday, every Tuesday. And so they're going to get hungry, they're going to be sick of spending their own money at a fast food joint or buying clothes or buying gas. They're going to get hungry. They're going to come home. What better place to eat, to have our kids eat than around our dinner table?
There's been times when dinner tables have been tough, where kids kind of bicker and fight, but it's just getting easier. The older they get, the more mature they get. So there is hope. Trust the Lord that it will get better. When we have consistent love, I learned people will always respond to genuine love, unconditional love. And we're seeing that, I think, in our kids as well.
Laura Dugger: Wow. That's such a hopeful reminder for anyone who's in the trenches and doing this, that those seeds eventually the Lord can make them grow and bloom. [00:14:12] Over the course of your marriage, how did the two of you choose to spend your leisure time?
Sara Anthony: I would say when we had been married for some time... I mean, I'm trying to think of... we had three kids, so our fourth wasn't quite here, and it fell on a year where three of my closest friends, their marriages were in distress, looked like headed towards divorce. That really shook me up.
I remember talking with one of them and she said, "Yeah, we just don't have anything in common." I do think that can easily creep in when you're in the throes of raising small kids. All of a sudden, I panicked. I remember coming home to Drew and be like, "We got to find a hobby. We have to find something that we enjoy doing together."
I mean, it felt odd. We signed up for a 25K race. [00:15:13] We had this program that would... it started at like, you know, you can't run at all, and then it's supposed to get you to a 25K in six months or something like that. So we did that and we would connect after, but quickly realized that my legs are very short and Drew's are long, and running together wasn't really something that we could do very easily.
Drew: It gave us something to talk about.
Sara Anthony: But it did give us a connection that way.
Drew: You spend a lot of hours alone, you know, running.
Sara Anthony: Because we weren't able to really do that together. However, it's what we had in the moment. It didn't cost us really anything, and it was a connecting point. But I would say now having years more of marriage that what we found is finding an activity that both of you enjoy that you can do together is really where it's at. And that's where we would encourage people to find something that both of you enjoy. [00:16:17]
In the last few years for us that has been sailing, we love to sail together. And then also hiking. We really enjoy hiking. We can do it at a similar pace, enjoying God's creation that way. It allows for great conversation. So that took trial and error and years of trying to figure that out.
Drew: And I would say a couple other things. We've experienced the grandness of the national parks. We've also experienced the local hikes. On occasion when we're on vacation or down south, we'll play pickleball, not just with each other, but with our kids too.
And then also we flip a couple homes a year. I think Sara and I love taking a dilapidated property and dreaming it through something real cool at the end. So just doing that together I think is very rewarding. It gives us a challenge and gives us the opportunity to work at that challenge together and really make something beautiful and rewarding from that challenge. [00:17:20]
Sara Anthony: Yeah. But I think as far as applying it, you know, hearing this and being like, wow, I'm not going to be flipping a house anytime soon with my spouse. But it's even been as simple as after dinner, you know, let's go and just walk up and down our street a few times and just decompress and reconnect.
That's not something that I would say like we're passionate about, walking up and down our road, but we are passionate about staying connected with each other. And that's an easy way to be able to do it. So sometimes it's just looking at your circumstances and saying, you know, what can we make happen with what we currently have going on?
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
[00:18:02] <music>
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[00:19:19] <music>
Laura Dugger: You're kind of alluding to running this business together with flipping homes. So what have you learned about working well together?
Sara Anthony: I would say that's another thing that took us a while to kind of figure out and find our groove. We still mess up with that sometimes.
Drew: I tend to need to listen more, slow down a little more, talk to Sara more about something and her ideas, and then learn to respect those ideas and listen to those and take in the heart. I mean, it is a challenge. It's something that, yeah, we know that we're going to need to face this. But it's good. It's something good to do.
Sara Anthony: We both bring strengths to the table. Drew's really good at seeing the vision of what a house can be. When I initially walk into that type of house, it usually does have a lot of things wrong with it and it usually has a lot of junk in it. It's not uncommon for it to have a hole in the roof. Overwhelming. [00:20:27]
So now that we've flipped a few houses together, trusting Drew that I know he's got the eye for this, I currently cannot see it, it's overwhelming to me. But he knows what it can take. He can even quickly, which is an impressive skill, add up financially about what it would take to fix up that house.
And then I love to come in with those final touches and finding ways to more cost-effectively bring in features that people would love, but at a fraction of the cost of what they might see it on like an Instagram or a Pinterest. So we make a good team that way. But of course, it would be silly for us to say that there's never conflict with any of that. I think anytime we work together, you know, that's just part of what comes with the territory. But then how we do that and making sure that we're communicating in a loving manner and those sort of things. [00:21:29]
Drew: You know, it's dirty, it's messy. But when you take the last piece of trash out and you sweep the house, even before you get started on the construction, to accomplish that together as a team was incredibly rewarding. It makes your trip home all smiles.
Sara Anthony: It's allowed for some trust to be built as far as just knowing, "Okay, Drew's got an eye for this. Let's do another one another time."
Laura Dugger: I love it. I can definitely see how this would be a bonding experience as a couple. Another bonding experience is that the two of you have this unique opportunity to minister to couples on sailing trips. So will you now elaborate on what the Lord has taught you through sailing?
Drew: I think where it started was when we went on our first trip and it was a sail trip down in the British Virgin Islands where we were invited to go on a trip with three other couples. We had a skipper that kind of took care of the boat and its operation for us. [00:22:40]
I remember waking up with Sara the next morning. We went out on the front of the boat there and did our devotions. There's something about waking up, being on water, and on a boat that even though it's a large boat, 52-foot catamaran, you're still just a few feet from the water. And waking up that early in the morning where the sun's starting to come over the mountains of the islands and the water, because it's still morning, it's just glassy. I mean, it's just the reflection of the sky, the reflection of the mountains, the reflection of other boats. And then looking over and you're seeing other islands five miles away. In looking at the surrounding, being able to appreciate the blessing that it is to be on this earth that God created for us to enjoy and for us to take care of. That's the first lesson sailing did for me personally. [00:23:39]
Sara Anthony: Sure. It was a fresh perspective of God's creation. And we hadn't even left the harbor yet and we were already just in awe of seeing God's creation from the vantage point of being on the water. That was new for us. We just felt privileged that the Lord would see fit that we would have an opportunity to see His creation that way.
Drew: I think the second thing is, too... because I remember, Captain just talking about how sailing was one of the oldest methods of transportation. Basically, anyone in business, if they're going to trade a product, they're not going to put on the motorboat. They're not going to row across seas. They're going to put up the sails and use the wind, this miraculous feature of God's creation to really transport them from one piece of land to many, many, many miles away to another piece of foreign land. [00:24:46]
And just being able to experience that same technology that's ancient to accomplish that. You know, because it's a huge boat, tens of thousands of pounds of weight that's just gliding across the water, being blown by the wind.
Sara Anthony: I was more drawn to just the beauty around me and the connection that I was feeling with the Lord and being in that element. So we both fell in love with boating for different reasons. And yet there were some connected loves as well. And I think for Drew, the captain was great about like, If you want to help out and come sit next to me and take over the helm for a while, go for it. And Drew totally took advantage of that.
I mean, essentially, by the time the trip was over, he had been bitten pretty hard by the sailing bug and ended up working on getting his captain's license. The kids actually took some sailing lessons. [00:25:48] It rolled into something bigger than we could have ever imagined. So that when he ended up getting his captain's license and there was some shifting within the responsibilities of that sailing adventure program and there was a need there. Drew and I were able to step in and kind of help. We were then leading some of those. And then they were in need of some captains, and so Drew was volunteering captain time for that.
That's something that we still do. We love. In fact, it takes up a good chunk of our free time because we have not only seen how that experience strengthened our marriage. Now that we've done it several times with other couples, we see it impacting their marriage, and we're just like, We got to get as many people as we can on these trips. There's something about the sequestered setting, getting alone with your spouse-
Drew: Being intentional about your experience together. [00:26:56]
Sara Anthony: Yeah. Because each night we do gather and talk about questions that make you kind of pause and give you time to dream together, start thinking towards the future. Because I think in the busyness of all the things that we've already discussed with kids and business and life, that we can get in a rut of that.
When you take the time to get away, take the time to get quiet, and start to really ask, "God, what do you have for us? What does our future look like?" He's excited. He's excited to be able to, "Oh, I'm so glad you asked. Like, look at what I have. I just need you to take the next steps."
Drew: It's been amazing to see... you know, because I think in the last few years... in 2021, I think I did eight trips. So I met a lot of really cool couples. And just to see kind of what God has been doing in their lives and what God has in store for them in the future, too. [00:27:59] You see the potential there. So it's been awesome to see God kind of work and speak to their hearts and encourage them to that next step that He's kind of laid out for them.
Laura Dugger: It's such a unique thing to get to do together. But I love following that thread, or maybe "seeds" is a better example of how the Lord put on your hearts to spend leisure time intentionally together, to say no to some other things, not to be separate, but to pursue things that delighted you both. And now He's using that to bless so many married couples, Mark and myself included, through these sailing adventures. So I love hearing the backstory.
Let's look back through a few phases of your marriage. Were there any traditions or habits you established when you were engaged or a newlywed couple that eventually set you up for success?
Sara Anthony: One that comes to mind would be church attendance. [00:29:00] I recently listened to a podcast and she was one of the pastors at a university. And she said, one of the things that she's seeing is the decline of families attending church together, and that oftentimes sports can get in the way of that. Essentially families are attending church together, maybe once a month. So then as a college student, that feels normal. And then when you get busy, then maybe it's like once every other month.
That has been something for Drew and I that was example to us, but also we want to instill in our own kids, not for religious sake, but just out of, I want to take a pause within my week where I gather with other like-minded believers and we worship the God that we serve together.
Drew: I think there's a sense of accountability. There's this thing in the scripture that talks about not forsaking the assembly of the people. And I think there's something that happens when... and it doesn't matter. It doesn't even have to be our own church. [00:30:06] I mean, we're away a lot just because of our activities that take us to other cities. But it doesn't matter what denomination we end up going to. It doesn't matter, you know, who the pastor is, or their age, or what type of worship music that they play-
Sara Anthony: They're teaching the Bible, there's a connection.
Drew: There is a huge connection. That word that's spoken isn't going to return void. It doesn't return void in my life. I've seen it even in my kids where they'll reference something that a pastor spoke. Like, for example, we went to our home church just yesterday, but we had a visitor pastor, he was a professor from a different state, and he had like four points on what worship really means.
I don't know how the conversation got to this point, but we brought up the word worship, and I brought up the four points, or I was sharing them back and forth with my son, and he was able to insert some of those points. And so I know he was listening too. [00:31:06] But being able to be at a church service where they're preaching what's in the Bible, it's just a great blueprint for everything that we experience in life. And to be able to have that constant every weekend is precious.
Sara Anthony: I think to piggyback off that too, another priority for us is that our kids would always be involved in some sort of youth group. It can be something from within the school where they have a...
Drew: For me, it was Youth for Christ growing up, because I didn't have a youth group.
Sara Anthony: Yeah, just something where it's other kids where they're seeing it, not only hearing it from a parent, but another adult. Because oftentimes with our children, things that we've always said, and then another adult or mentor says it, and they're like, Oh, mom, you wouldn't believe what so-and-so said. [00:32:03] It's a painful moment when you have to bite your tongue and go, Yeah, that's what I've been telling you all along. But I would say, if we were going to highlight, there's obviously several traditions, but that has been one that we've just seen the payoff that's worth the investment.
Laura Dugger: What are some things that you did during the season of raising little children that you're now seeing the payoff as they're all becoming adults?
Sara Anthony: I think the hardest thing when your kids are little is being consistent. Just realizing that there's an element of none of us fully know what we're doing when it comes to parenting. We're doing the best we can.
I remember I was a full-grown adult when I realized that was the case for my parents. And so it allowed me to extend a ton more grace to them. But I think just that element of when they've done something for the fifth time, and you've already told them, and you're having to put on timeout or whatever it is, the disciplinary method, it's exhausting. [00:33:14]
And knowing that in the long run, it really will produce a teenager, a young adult that you enjoy hanging out with. We really love having dinner around the table with our kids, and that includes our adult kids, that we have a relationship with that is enjoyable.
Drew: I think just inserting Christ into life. And by that, I mean, I just heard some parent talk about how they prayed with their children every morning. Different parents have different goals. Our pastor growing up, they had a family devotion every Monday night.
We've talked to our kids about just that devotional time, playing Christian music, playing worship music, watching what TV shows, does a TV show glorify the Lord, just talking about standards and just inserting the Lord in His purpose and His plan that He has for us, I think, on a regular basis, on a consistent basis. Just being that foundation for our children to kind of see and recognize. [00:34:27]
And then putting them in circumstances like on a missions trip or outreaches where they can see the benefit of serving others and of loving others. We took our oldest two on a missions trip to Dominican Republic when they were, man, late elementary, early junior high age. And just to see them experience other kids that were older love doing that work for the Lord and just sharing their testimonies and seeing we have it great here in the US. God calls us to reach out to those that are less fortunate. And giving them the opportunity to share the love of Christ to others that they've never met. Things like that I think were crucial as well.
Sara Anthony: And we can tie up our answers into a neat little ball. But the reality is that as parents, you're tired and frustrated and there are going to be elements of you lose your cool. You yell or you react in a way where you're like, "That's not the parent I want to be." And then being humble enough to ask for forgiveness, set the example of what that looks like. Like, "Man, buddy, I lost it there. Will you forgive me?" So that they're also seeing that example of what humility looks like. [00:35:46]
Drew: I remember a time when my son, who's a senior in high school now, but I remember a time when he was younger, I got very angry with him and I yelled at him. He was skating around, I think I was cleaning the garage. He had his skateboard out or something and just was doing kid things in there.
And I remember just years and years and years that really ate at me how I responded to him. So there was a time when I just went in his room. This was just like this last year and we were just having a one-on-one time and I brought that up to him. Of course, he doesn't remember that. It was a long time ago. But I just asked for forgiveness.
Because it is easy, I think, to kind of get caught up in the frustrations of life where it's not easy, it's hard, it's difficult and you lose your cool sometimes. And it's not that I just did that one thing and kind of approached him that and sought his forgiveness for that. [00:36:51] But I think as a father, and really as a mother too, because Sara does this too, we have accountability with other couples where we talk about different goals that we set and we keep each other accountable on a weekly basis for that when it comes to things of health, spiritual, financial, different aspects that we're trying to reach. And then we pray for each other and we keep each other accountable in that. And so we lean on others to do what we're called to do as parents and as husbands and as wives.
Laura Dugger: We just wanted to remind you to give us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. This helps more people discover The Savvy Sauce and ultimately hear the good news of Jesus. Thanks for partnering with us. We truly have the kindest and most helpful listeners.
Well, Drew and Sara, from your own experience, do you have any encouragement for married couples who are also currently raising teenagers? [00:37:51]
Sara Anthony: Yeah. I would say the first thing that comes to mind is pray that if they are messing up that you find out early and often. In other words, if they're doing something they shouldn't be, your prayer is, Lord, help me to find that out early before those roots start to go deep and they're harder to uproot.
I always have said that I want my kids to mess up some while they're in high school under my roof before they go away to college, which is great to say. And then when they actually do it, you're like, "Oh my goodness. Now I've got to parent this. I've got to follow through with this boneheaded move that my kid just made." But it's, again, that consistency that comes in. It looks different because now maybe not as physically exhausting, but for sure emotionally and mentally exhausting at the teenage years.
Our kids have made some mistakes that did happen under our roof as we requested from the Lord and yet with things that allow us to bring correction and teaching into their circumstances. [00:39:09] And there have been times that just the initial correction isn't enough. Just even in the last year for one of our kids, the element of, Okay, I've prayed about this. I'm still not seeing a breakthrough in that area. We've prayed together on this. Okay, what more can we do?"
Drew: Yeah. It was in our bedroom.
Sara Anthony: And of course, involving them and you're feeling like you're blue in the face as far as repeating the same things and just not seeing improvement. So, for us, it was like, okay, we need to fast over this, deny ourselves some food like the Bible talks about so that the Lord knows, like, I'm serious about this. I really need you to come through.
Drew: We've done everything we need to do.
Sara Anthony: We've done all we know to do.
Drew: We need some supernatural support.
Sara Anthony: Exactly. The cool thing is though, is seeing the faithfulness of God in that. [00:40:12] And it wasn't overnight, but it was a testament to our son as we would talk to him, like, "This is something that we're seeing in your life. We know what that looks like in adult life, and we want to spare you from that." We not only are praying individually, we're praying as a couple, but we're also denying ourselves food once a week. We see this as a serious thing. So I don't know if that's exactly what you were looking for, but I would say that that's something that we've done, had to do out of necessity.
Laura Dugger: I think it's incredibly, not only practical, but like you said, inviting the supernatural power that we absolutely rely on because there's only so much we can do as parents and God's the one who supplies the power. How have you kept the romance alive through all these stages of marriage?
Drew: I think for us it's being intentional at getting away and being okay with leaving our kids. [00:41:16] We've been fortunate to have good families or good my mom and dad or brother and sister's house for them to stay at. But making sure that we have time to get away. Yeah, I think that's probably...
Sara Anthony: For sure. I think that, you know, even as we work with couples and seeing how difficult it is to leave our kids and somehow that thinking is, I'm not a good mom if I leave them. And the quote that I have always said to my kids is that I'm actually a better mom if I can get a week away with your dad once a year, or maybe it's not even a week, you know, working up to a week, but it's a weekend away.
Something to where it's just Drew and me and alone time and trusting that the people that we have put our children in their care, that they're going to do a good job and believing that God is going to care for our kids because he loves them more than we do, which is hard to imagine, and He loves us as a couple and wants to see us be able to stay connected. [00:42:25]
When I talk to young moms, that is something that I try to emphasize. And I know that that can be a frustrating thing to hear when maybe finances are tight, but it is a manner of getting creative, even if it's selling something that you're not using anymore, just whatever it takes to be able to have that away time with your spouse I think is crucial and something worth fighting for.
Laura Dugger: I don't think we can hear that enough when we're in the throes of raising young kids. So as you're looking at married couples now with little children, is there even a certain age of their children that you recommend, okay, this is when to start implementing that goal?
Drew: Six months. No, on our sail trips, every once in a while, we'll have younger couples that go that have maybe a young child, a year-old baby, or two-year-old baby at home. It's their youngest child. [00:43:29] You know, it's tough to leave that child with a parent or someone that you trust.
Sara Anthony: I would hate to box in at a certain age to say what that would be. But at the same time, we had a younger couple. They have five children, and the youngest was a toddler. There was some hesitation. She had committed to coming on the trip, but then she was starting to second-guess it. And I just said, "You know, the people that you are leaving them with, do you trust them?" And she's like, "Yes." I said, "Then you should come. It's okay. You know you're leaving them in capable hands."
I would say that I'm seeing more people err on not getting away for the sake of the children. I would just say, what if it actually long-term helped benefit them because mom and dad are more connected? [00:44:36]
Drew: And you know, when we get away, and we do what's right, whether it be with our spouse, or even as a family where... like we just did something awesome with our kids, where we had just three, four days of great family time, we went away. And we came back, and when we got back in the house, one of our kids just acted very unbecoming.
You know, we had just invested a bunch of time, we took our kids to New York City and had just an amazing time with the two of us and with our two children. And I remember kind of being surprised that those words came out of our child after just getting in the door. Because the reality is the enemy does not want to see us have a successful relationship with our spouse, relationship with our family. And so there's going to be things that happen, words that are said. [00:45:36]
I think one thing that God is teaching me personally is to not take those things personally, but to understand that the enemy doesn't want to see things succeed. And so what's happening in that moment isn't a reflection of kind of what is going on in our family, but it's just him trying to poke at us, you know? To know that those things, those times are going to happen and to understand that that's a plot of the enemy and for us to love them and keep our hand on the wheel, keep on steering in the right direction.
It's easy to get it right back on course, you know, through hugs, through conversations, through consistency. God will utilize, I think, our maturity to keep things on that path.
Laura Dugger: I think that's so important to bring up because I agree with you, I think that the enemy is going to use so many creative tactics to keep this from happening because of the good. [00:46:36] It's another one of those situations where it feels like it requires faith because you're doing this, hoping that this will benefit the whole family, even if you and your spouse get away.
And I think for me personally, what the enemy will try and whisper, especially ahead of time, is, "This is going to harm your children. If you leave them, it's going to harm your relationship or your bond with them." And there's a fear then of, okay, are we going to regret this when they get older? We're not privy to that information yet because our oldest just turned eight this past December. But it seems like the Lord continues to comfort with the same words that you're saying, that this is not only not going to harm them, but this will actually bless them. And so it requires trust.
Drew: Yeah.
Sara Anthony: Absolutely. Yep. I agree with that.
Laura Dugger: Well, it just helps so much to hear you vocalize that. [00:47:36] That's so encouraging. How are the two of you maintaining a healthy relationship as you near the empty nest stage?
Sara Anthony: Drew and I are in separate goal groups. What I was realizing is that I don't want to look at Drew as our last kid leaves the house and go, "I don't know who you are." Because we have maintained some of that connection through our things we enjoy doing together, or the trips that we take once a year, just the two of us, or those types of things that keep us connected so that when that last child leaves in two years, Drew's not a stranger. Like he's someone that I know very well. And we almost can celebrate that next stage in looking forward to what that means for the two of us together.
Drew: Part of our goals that we've had and established in those week-to-week goal groups over the last year, one of them always has to do with your marriage. [00:48:41] We choose a goal in one of usually four to five categories. And one of those categories is always your marriage. So we'll have goals. And sometimes we know each other's goals, sometimes we don't.
But the goals that we have proposed in our group on a week-to-week basis, I think have focused us towards investing in that relationship so that it continues to grow, it continues to get stronger. And you know what? It's kind of nice. We're enjoying time when our kids aren't there. Yeah, we love having our kids around, we love spending time with them, but we also love getting away and having it just be the two of us.
Laura Dugger: This sounds amazing, these goal groups. So I want to ask a few more questions about that. Is this something that the two of you came up with and then invited others in? Or is there a certain curriculum you're following? If somebody's listening and they want to follow in your footsteps. [00:49:41]
Sara Anthony: Sure. So it's been so transformational for me. I'm going on year six. It was something a friend got an idea about, and she said, "Hey, do you want to do it?" And I said yes. There's been three of us that have been together for those six years. If you really wanted information on it, I do have a blog post that's simply saraanthony.com. After each blog post, I have where you can leave your email and it will send you a walkthrough of how to break this down. Basically, it's come from trial and error. And then after doing it for years-
Drew: As Sara's husband and watching her in this group... because I remember seeing the disciplines develop in her life when she woke up at a certain time every single morning and did her devotions. I'd see her get away with the kids on a regular basis where she would purposely go in the room and just talk with them. [00:50:47] That obviously was her family goal or her goal with her kids.
I remember one time where she just blessed a stranger with like a Starbucks gift card. And hearing about that and just being impressed at what she was able to accomplish on a day-to-day basis because of this accountability group.
So it kind of inspired me to do the same thing because you see kind of... You know, discipline is something that's talked about all the time in the Bible and accountability and the court of three strands and all of this that God says, hey, you have brothers and sisters in the Lord that are there to support you and to cheer you on. Blessed is the man who falls and has someone to help get back up.
We all fall. We all struggle. Can you be purposeful in putting people in your life to help you during those times and key areas of who you are? [00:51:44] There's areas that I think God, you know, can easily get into your life and utilize brothers in the Lord, speaking for myself to support you. So it's been something that I developed after seeing Sara be so encouraged and grow in the Lord because of it. So I, myself, it's probably been a three-year process, and yeah, it's been incredibly supportive.
Laura Dugger: I love how contagious that wisdom is. So we will certainly link to your blog post in today's episode show notes. This time together has been so precious already. And a lot of times Savvy Sauce listeners will reach out for where to turn for some tips on marriage. So if listeners want to glean more marital wisdom from the two of you online, where would you direct them?
Sara Anthony: On my blog. I usually post a couple times a month. And that's just simply SaraAnthony.com. That's where I tend to stick those items of wisdom. [00:52:50]
Drew: One of the things that we've done too is when we go on walks, occasionally we'll listen to a book on marriage because we don't have the answers. And it's just good to hear wisdom from different people that have different focuses on how they feel their marriage would be stronger. That's something that anyone can do just by searching Amazon or any other sort of audible application.
Laura Dugger: Well, that's a great idea. I'll put all the links in the show notes, but also I'll put a link. We have all of our marriage-related podcast episodes and then some marriage-recommended resources. So I'll put all of those links in. So if you want to listen to something on a walk, you can do that on a commute as well. And it's an easy list right there.
But Drew and Sara, you know we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for the two of you today, what is your savvy sauce? [00:53:54]
Sara Anthony: I would say, for me, the thing that has revolutionized my life the most has been morning quiet time. I call it my morning routine, but it's the time that I spend with the Lord where I'm praying, studying. When I first started in a goal group, I knew that that was one of the priorities. Like I've tried and I failed and I just want to make this a habit.
I think the cool thing that happens, that as you stay consistent with it... and again, like we talked about earlier, the enemy knows the power of connection with Jesus. So he will try to trip you up, discourage you, you know, have your kids wake up earlier than they should have, all those things. But if we can just stay consistent with that, the power that comes from that, it has truly changed my life. [00:54:57]
I've seen it impact my friends, my kids. It changes you. Time with God changes you. You can live off one encounter from the Lord, but He desires to meet with us all the time. And so if we can tap into that, oh my goodness, it's powerful.
I always tell people, even if you're just committing, getting really good at 10 minutes or five minutes, whatever it is, get really good at that. And then what naturally happens is that you fall in love with Jesus during that time and five, ten minutes isn't enough. That would be my savvy sauce advice — spending time with Jesus, making that a habit.
Drew: For me, I would say the importance of hiding the word in your heart. I remember when I was probably, I don't know, 20 years old, my job was, I was a landscaper at our local church and a buddy of mine had been a successful youth pastor, and he was looking to hire someone to be a junior high pastor. [00:56:03]
So he took me out to breakfast one morning and just asked me, "Drew, what verse are you meditating on? What is the Lord speaking to your heart?" And I remember being kind of stunned. I didn't really know what that answer was. I mean, I grew up in the church and I knew if he started saying a popular verse, I probably could help finish it. But there wasn't a verse that I had been meditating on.
In the process of these goal groups, one of the things that I've started to do was not only memorizing certain verses, but every morning repeating that verse before I start my quiet time. Well, currently there's three verses that I'm repeating before every devotional time. Ephesians 4:29, which talks about not letting an unwholesome talk come out of your mouth. Proverbs 3:5-6, trust the Lord with all your heart, lean on your own understanding that verse. And then the last one, Psalm 16:11, which is you make known to me the path of life. You fill me with joy in your presence. And so just speaking those verses in my life every morning sets me on the path for that day. [00:57:19]
Laura Dugger: Aw, I love all of that. I would just say three words come to mind to sum up this conversation. And those are faith, hope, and love. Because I think of faith in your choices that the two of you have modeled in your life decisions. There's hope that you've passed on to each of us to stay the course in parenting and continue seeking God. And then your love for one another and your kids and others just exude out of you.
It's clear that the two of you are so humble as you approach this topic of marriage, and I appreciate all the stories you shared and your real-life examples. I just want to encourage you as well, that knowing your oldest daughter, Alexa, shows me that you actually live out what you talk about. And the way that she spoke of the two of you, not only for your love for one another but her security in the family and her security and her bond and relationship with the two of you. [00:58:15]
I remember Mark and I left that conversation like, wow, we want to pick their brain and see what all they're doing, because it was clear that you're leaving an impactful legacy for your children. So I'm leaving this conversation encouraged and inspired. So thank you for being my guest today.
Drew: Well, thanks for having us.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. [00:59:14] But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [01:00:14] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [01:01:16]
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.*
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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