Long-Game Parenting with Elizabeth Pehrson (Episode 295)
Exodus 23:20 NLT “See, I am sending an angel before you to protect you on your journey and lead you safely to the place I have prepared for you.”
*Transcription Below*
Elizabeth Pehrson is a speaker, podcaster and founder of The Exchange. She’s a yellow sanguine, who is full of energy and lives life wide-open! She loves Jesus and meaningful connections. Elizabeth is married to David and mother of EIGHT children, who range from high school to graduated from college.
Follow her online:
Instagram: @long_game_parenting or @octomama or @theexchangeus
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.m.pehrson
Thank you to our sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka
Questions and Topics We Cover:
What is our role, as parents, in making an effort to help our children have a positive relationship with their siblings?
What are ways we can positively shape our children to have strong and healthy relationships with friends?
How can we help our children uncover, articulate, and pursue their purpose in life?
Other Savvy Sauce Episodes Mentioned:
75 Responding to God’s Stirring with Elizabeth Pehrson, Founder of The Exchange, Part Two
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:10)
Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 1:54)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka.
Owned and operated by the Bertschi family, Sam Leman and Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at lemangm.com. My returning guest for today is the very energetic, married mother of eight, and founder of The Exchange, Elizabeth Pearson.
I highly recommend that, first of all, you find the link in the show notes to start with our first two episodes together that we did a while back. They focus primarily on raising younger children, but today we're going to focus on parenting teens and beyond in hopes of launching faithful and healthy adults someday. So, with that goal in mind, we're going to begin by discussing relationship-building strategies to foster a life of rightly ordered affections, where we're all loving God and loving others as ourselves.
Then we're going to move into some more actionable ways to ensure our family delights in the abundant life in Christ. Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (1:55 - 1:57)
Well, thank you so much for having me. What a joy.
Laura Dugger: (1:58 - 2:23)
Well, I'm just going to start with something that's a little tricky because we obviously cannot control the outcome, but we can be faithful to our calling as parents. So, Elizabeth, do you have any practical tips for helping our children rightly order their affections so that they'll hopefully grow up to love God?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (2:23 - 4:52)
Yes. I appreciate you asking with the disclaimers because I do think that that's an important thing because, first of all, I just want to say that I hope that every single woman listening can understand, believe, and trust that God loves our children way more than we do. And as much as we want to control the outcome or guarantee the outcome with our children, we can't.
All we can do is just be faithful to the children that God's entrusted to us. And when it comes to ordering our children's affections, I would basically just say it can't be forced. It can't be image-driven.
And I say that because, unfortunately, I see that a lot in Christian homes today, a lot. And I think one of the most helpful shifts for me in realizing that I cannot control anything when it comes to my children is that I can shape the environment where their loves are formed. That's one thing that is in my control.
That is something that I can do. And a few practical ways that you can do this, and first I'm going to say this a lot, the most important things that we can offer our children are caught, they're not taught. And we have to model it more than we preach it because our children are incredible observers.
And they notice what we prioritize. They notice what interrupts us. They notice what doesn't interrupt us.
And if God's something we only talk about on Sundays, then they feel that. But if they see us turning to Him when we're anxious, when we're grateful, when we're confused, they start to associate God with real life, not just rules. And second, I would just say, I think it's super important to help our kids understand what's worthy of love, right?
I mean, I think we should talk openly with our kids about sports, friends, achievements, you know, how those can be gifts, but they are terrible gods. And also, that they're very, very, very short-sighted. It's not typically, I would say, not typically the so-called bad things that are stealing our affections.
It's usually the good things that are just not often the best things. And so that I would say, like when I watch my children, oftentimes it would be them loving a good thing too much, you know. Most importantly, I would just say that if our kids or your kids or the listeners' kids grow up knowing the heart of God rather than the rules of God, I think their affections will know where to turn.
Laura Dugger: (4:53 - 5:04)
Oh, that's so well said. And do you have any ideas for characteristics that will help foster a healthy parent-child relationship?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (5:05 - 8:07)
Oh, goodness. I would say, you know, so many things. I think children thrive when they feel safe, when the home feels predictable, when it feels secure, and especially when we listen more than we lecture.
You know, when we can do that, they will feel understood and they won't feel constantly corrected. You know, I grew up in a home that I'm very grateful for, but in my home, love often felt transactional. If I did this, then that.
But, you know, we all know that love isn't something that is earned. You know, it's freely given. And so, our love and affection should never be tied to performance or behavior.
But again, unfortunately, what I see on a regular daily basis is that moms are more codependent on their children than ever before. And because of that, they see their children's behavior as a reflection of themselves. And so that love can become a little bit transactional.
But I would say, practically speaking, I think there's lots of things that encourage a healthy parent-child relationship. And, you know, we could go through a whole list of these things. But the first thing I would say is not being their friend yet.
Down the road, but not yet. You know, we'll have time for that later. But if we treat them as peers right now while they're in the home, authority isn't a value at all that is taught to be respected.
It isn't. And, you know, another thing would be just basic consistent boundaries because structure is actually what creates freedom, right? Open communication, you know, where hard conversations can be had.
And I'm going to tell you, this is something that we were not the best at, but we found ourselves consistently apologizing for, you know, avoiding that hard conversation and then having come back to it. That was a big one. You know, repair after conflict.
That's huge because it is so important for our kids to see us model, you know, owning our mistakes, apologizing for it, you know, when we mess up because that teaches the kids that our relationships can bend without breaking. And the last thing I thought of when I thought about this question was respect for autonomy. And I say that because healthy relationships are ones where we allow our kids to grow and evolve.
But a lot of times we want to keep them stuck in whatever that age, whatever that stage is. And children need to be allowed age-appropriate independence. They need to be allowed age-appropriate freedom, you know, constantly just letting that rope out little by little by little and, you know, knowing that parents eventually will just get to the place where they can guide mentor without instructing, you know, our, our goal for them is their own autonomy and their own independence.
Laura Dugger: (8:09 - 8:28)
That's so good. It makes me even think recently I was reading something about leave and cleave and leaving is breaking all dependencies. And I thought that's kind of the kindness of the Lord that we do that a little by little.
Every year, probably of parenting.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (8:29 - 9:51)
Oh, it's, it's the truth. And it's interesting that you say that because one, we have an 18-year-old boy that's graduating. And my husband and I were just talking, we think it's the goodness of the Lord because what we've noticed, not disrespect, but just this pulling away as he's, you know, nearing graduation, really wanting more independence, not necessarily telling us where he's going to be just, you know, he's not going to be able to go to college.
And then we're like, “Oh, I went to so-and-so's house.” And after the fact, and in, in a way when our first son started doing that, I was like, “You know what? He's not, he still lives in this, you know, in this home under this roof.”
But it's like my husband said, “You know, it's almost like God's goodness that allows him to pull away a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. So that when he does leave in August, end of July, It makes it a little bit easier. You know?”
And then that leave and cleave thing, you said, “I have a son that lives in Houston and he's the lead part just fine, independent, separate, but now he's cleaving to someone else as he's met a girl and that part has been hard for me.” It's like, whoa, like that's a whole, that's like next level, you know, where they no longer, you're no longer the one they call for advice. You're no longer the woman in their life, so to speak.
And so, it's been a lot of growing pains, but it's all, again, it's exactly what God designed when we raise our kids.
Laura Dugger:: (9:51 - 10:28)
But you're right, it's both and it's beautiful, but it's hard and very difficult to go through. It makes me think one of my top 10 of all-time favorite episodes was with Annie Chapman and she wrote the mother-in-law dance. And so, I'll link to that episode as well in the show notes, but I think it was very helpful for even preparing now what that's going to look like someday.
Yep. But as we come back to focusing on today, Elizabeth, what is our role as parents in making an effort to help our children have a positive relationship with their siblings?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (10:29 - 14:01)
Oh, goodness. Having eight children, you know, they have a lot of siblings and ever since our kids were little, David and I just have prayed over and over and over again, one, that they would know, love, and serve God, two, that they would stay close to each other, and then three, that they would seek joy in everything they do. And so, because one of our prayers is that they would stay close to each other, we did everything we could to shape environments that fostered connection with their siblings, with each other.
And that could look like we moved their rooms a lot of times, like who they shared with at different seasons of their life. We mixed them up with different brothers or different sisters, outings or trips where we would take just a couple of them, not all of them, but we mixed that up. You know, we never, ever, ever put up with disrespect or mistreatment of each other.
That one is a huge one, or their belongings for that matter. But that's so important not to allow your children to offer disrespect or display disrespect to their siblings. A lot of people think, oh, it's just their kid, you know, their siblings, they feel most comfortable with him.
That's totally normal, but it really does start at home. Another thing I think of is that we talked as a whole, our family as a team, as a unit. You know, we were a family unit.
It's not like one pitted against the other. We were on the same team. And although if my children were here, I am certain that one or more of them would say that they felt compared to at times, but we really did our best not to compare our children because comparison breeds rivalry faster than anything.
It really, really does. And we also tried to think about each individual child, you know, like, hey, this is your unique gift. This is your strength.
This is an asset, you know, an asset to the team, not just to you individually, but as a family as a whole. And the last thing I would say is everyone laughs because we had family A and then we had family B. And that's the first four kids and the second four kids.
And we taught them to serve each other. You know, the older kids were paired with the younger child, a younger sibling, and they had to help them. Sometimes it wasn't even help serving them, but it was doing a chore together.
We'll get to this later, I think. But chores are huge in our home. And when they turn nine, they have to mow the yard.
And we had we lived on three and a half acres. And so, we had a riding lawnmower. And when my nine-year-old son, my third son turned nine, he wasn't quite heavy enough to keep the mower going, you know, because you have to be heavy enough.
Otherwise, it shuts it off. And when he would lean to put his foot on the gas, it would shut it off. So, my three-year-old boy, his chore was to sit behind him and just hold on, you know, for the hour and a half it took him to mow the yard.
And, you know, we paired them together a lot. But at the end of the day, we can require respect, but we just can't force friendship. I have two daughters that are only 15 months apart.
When they were little, they were attached at the hip. I mean, where one went, the other one went. But now that they're older and they're both in college at the same college, their personalities are very different.
Their interests are very different. And they aren't as close as they once were, but they love each other. They respect each other.
And, you know, we just have to be OK with that, you know.
Laura Dugger: (14:02 - 14:40)
That makes sense because there's different seasons to everything. I think you can see that with siblings who pair up with each other. And I'm sure that changes throughout their whole life.
Yeah, I want to go back. There's a few things that I want to follow up on. One of them was codependency with mothers and their children.
And the other one is already escaping me now. So, I'll try and recall that one. But can you share a little bit more of either why you think it is that way more today or what that might look like if we're codependent with our children and maybe unaware of that?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (14:41 - 16:35)
All I can say is that I meet with women on a regular basis and 9.9 times out of ten there, they see their children as a reflection of themselves. So, when they make wise choices, they tend to tend to get puffed up. When they don't, they kind of bow back in shame or regret.
Or I can't believe this. But the truth of the matter is they are independent, you know, separate from you. And most moms don't know where they end and where the child begins.
We're entering graduation season. And I cannot tell you the number of moms that are like, “Oh, oh, this is so hard, this graduation thing.” And I'm like, but you're not graduating.
Like, you know, the kids have the responsibility of all the different things they have to do. But you don't. They've already you know, you've already graduated.
Let them enjoy this separate from you. But they can't do it. They're a part of every single aspect of their daughter or their son's life.
And when that happens, you know, every home run is so important. Every grade they make is so important. And I am all about long, long term, you know, long term parenting.
And it is not that it has nothing to do with a long-term person of character that they will become. So, if moms can see where they are separate, it is so beneficial for the child as well as the mom. You know, I met with a mom the other day and she's like, well, I'm not codependent, but my daughter is.
And I said, “Well, tell me more about this.” And she said, “Well, she calls me. She's in college and she calls me 10 times a day.”
And I said, “OK, well, let me ask you, how many times do you answer?” And she's kind of looked at me and she goes, “Well, she might need something.” And I said, “She can call back.”
She can text 911. But when you're so readily available to your child, it just fosters that dependency, you know, of your child on you. And it's so unhealthy.
Laura Dugger: (16:36 - 16:51)
And I did hear a mom tell me one time when we, I think, had very little children. She said, “You want to ultimately work that dependency off of you and onto the Lord where they are first going to him, which is a lifelong job.”
Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:51 - 18:23)
It is a lifelong job. There's a funeral service. It's going to sound morbid, but I watched it because it was so impactful to me.
I didn't even know this lady, but I watched it four times, this service that was online out of Florida. And the daughters were speaking and they said, “The best thing that they did, the very best thing that she did for them was to teach them their complete dependence on the Lord.” And she said, “She had cancer and she knew she was passing away.”
And she said, “Girls, don't be sad for me. I am going to be with my heavenly father rejoicing, singing his praises.” And she said, “If I have taught you to rely solely on me, then I've done a really bad job.”
I want your sole dependence to be on your heavenly father. But unfortunately, what I see again is just meeting with these women. We teach them that our presence is what keeps them safe or are, you know, being close proximity, especially with the cell phone.
You know, there's a lot of researchers that call it the longest umbilical cord because it keeps us in contact with him 24 seven. It's so sad. I mean, I interviewed some teachers at a middle school because they don't no longer allow cell phones.
You have to put it in the basket. Now there are some schools that are making you just not even bring it in. But I'm not even exaggerating when I tell you.
They would tell me that the children have two cell phones. The parents would give them two; one so they could put it in the basket and two so that the parents could be able to reach them at a moment's notice. Wow.
It's a real thing. I'm not making this up.
Laura Dugger: (18:24 - 18:26)
That is crazy.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (18:26 - 18:59)
Just to think in not that many years, how different that is from, you know, I ask moms all the time, would you have loved it if your mom had a low jack on you, like tracking your every move? I mean, because what happens is when you do that in middle school, high school, then they go off to college. I meet with moms every single day.
They're like, oh, my goodness, I'm so tired. I didn't go to bed till three o'clock last night. And I'm like, why?
Well, because I have like 360 on my child in college and she didn't get home till three, so I couldn't go to sleep. That's a normal everyday thing.
Laura Dugger: (19:01 - 19:38)
Wow. And OK, for those situations, what would you recommend instead of that? And I guess if I could throw this in, I just was at a reunion with some graduate school friends, and we are all therapists or that's what we studied.
And we were just sharing how truly we've seen this play out. What we learned back in grad school was that if there's anxiety about something, avoidance never works. You have to even if it's micro dosing, you have to go through it rather than around it or avoid it.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (19:38 - 20:32)
Oh, yes. And I mean, I'm sure you've read the book, The Most Anxious Generation of All Time. I mean, that's where we are.
And it stems, in my opinion, my humble opinion from the parents who are so anxious because they are codependent, because they are over involved in their children's life. And, you know, quite honestly, it's like the moms are so involved in their children's lives that when the last child leaves, you see the highest divorce rate is after the last emancipation of the last child. Once that child leaves, it's like, I have no life.
I have no identity. I have no purpose. And I certainly don't have relationship with my husband because my focus has been with my children.
And so, the moms that are anxious, the moms that are just so overbearing, over controlling are the ones that, in my opinion, are fostering those types of relationships with their children, the anxious ones. They can't do anything without their parents.
Laura Dugger: (20:33 - 22:06)
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And so, do you have any tips if they're recognizing that in themselves today? What's just one turning point that could happen?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (22:07 - 23:29)
Well, I would say and I hope that they're willing to take it. Most women that I meet with will recognize that they are. And then they're like, but you don't understand.
Or but I just can't go to sleep or there's a, but you know why I can't. But I would say whatever that is, that has a hold on you, that you're still holding on to your 18, 19, 20, 21, 26-year-old child, whatever it is, they're adults. I mean, legally, they are adults at 18.
But yet whatever that is, that's holding you, keeping you attached to them, whether it's causing you to lose sleep, whether it's causing anxiety. You absolutely have to make that separation in that area. And so, you know, for the one that's got the Life360, 24 seven. Hey, give it to your husband.
You take it off your phone and they will be able to know how to figure out where your child is, should there be a need, you know, but you're hyper fixating on it, take that away. If it is a cell phone and you're calling your child every single day about everything, all that's doing is teaching your child that they can't do it on their own without you. And they have Google, you know, they have the Internet.
I didn't have that when I went away and I didn't have a cell phone, but I figured it out. So, it's like whatever it is that has a hold on you. I would encourage the mom just to make that separation in that one area and then start there.
Laura Dugger: (23:30 - 23:34)
Love it. And I did think of the other thing that I wanted to circle back with.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (23:35 - 23:35)
What is this?
Laura Dugger: (23:35 - 23:49)
So, you had mentioned, yes, you taught your children respect one another in the home, but also respecting their belongings or property. Can you just share a little bit more of how you did that in your philosophy of why that was important?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (23:50 - 25:40)
Oh, absolutely. I would tell you that David, my husband, and I firmly believe that respect for siblings, for coaches, for teachers, for peers, for their parents is hands down the foundation of every other principle that you can instill in your children, because if you respect them, you know, I mean, there are certain cultures and generations that respect their elderly. We're not a culture that does that.
And it's like if you respect them, you hold the door for them. You'll get up and give them your seat. You would never, you know, misuse their things, their belongings.
So, with the second that we saw any amount of disrespect, whether it was to us, like, say, if one of my children said something to me that was disrespectful, whether it was a tone, it might not have been the words. It could be a tone. It could be the volume of his voice, whatever it might be.
My husband would step in and say, “Hey, son. That's my wife. I don't allow anyone to speak like that to her.”
And then therefore, there would be like a consequence for it. And so, I mean, it might be that or at the risk of being too TMI or too vulgar. I had one son that had the urge to go to the bathroom, pee wherever he wanted to.
And one time he peed on his sister's blanket, her blankie, because he was mad at her. Let me tell you something. He will never forget it.
I don't remember what the punishment was at the time, but he got one. He never went to the bathroom anywhere again other than the toilet. You know, it's like, no, no, no, you cannot do that.
I mean, it's the foundation of the golden rule. You know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But children think they can get away with it.
And then parents justify it by saying, “Oh, but they're only three. Oh, but they're only six. Oh, they didn't really mean it.”
Well, you know what? That's where you've set the foundation right there. Three, five, six, whatever the age, so that when they grow up, they will respect their coaches, their employers, their teachers.
Laura Dugger: (25:40 - 25:55)
You know, so good. OK, so another relational question, then what are ways that we can help or support positively shaping our children to have strong and healthy relationships with their friends?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (25:56 - 29:02)
Yeah, I think that is such an important question. It was the very first verse we had our children memorize when they were itty bitty, you know, he who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm because research shows that we are the sum of the five people that we hang out with the most. So, who those five are in their circle, it is so important.
You know, it in our opinion, it is essential to model for our children what healthy friendships look like, because, again, they learn that by watching us. It goes back to what's caught, you know, not the top principle. And I think it's essential to have them around other children their own age as often as possible, because I think we can use friendship with their peers, not their parents, not their grandparents, but with peers.
Then we can use those examples and those situations to teach them to include others, to take turns, to read body language, to notice when something's wrong with one of your friends, right? To apologize. Ask for forgiveness too, hey, this one's doing something completely different than I would do, but let's celebrate that.
And a big one is navigating disappointment and hurt. You know, I mean, that's going to inevitably happen with our children and their friendships. So those roles are so important because we can use those experiences to help train and equip them.
You know, for us, our goal was never, ever, ever about popularity. Matter of fact, I don't even like the word. I don't like the you know what it stands for.
But for us, it was really just to focus on their character and the heart issues. So, because of that, we would ask them, you know, not who are you friends with and who do you know, but things like who did you include at lunch today? Did you notice anyone sitting alone?
Did you say anything to them? What kind friend or what kind of thing did you do for a friend today? And, you know, as far as like how we model that for our children and try to encourage that with them, it's going to cause a sacrifice on our end, right?
I mean, when we're allowing and I mean, we might have to take time driving them to, you know, a good friend's house that lives far away or it might be hosting events. It might be goodness. I mean, every mom knows that we've had to wait on our children and wait and wait and wait and whatever that looks like.
But, you know, just modeling that for our children and setting that environment and that groundwork so that they can have these friendships. It's going to be a sacrifice for every single mom. We can and we'll have to sacrifice our comfort.
We'll have to sacrifice our convenience. Right. A louder house, extra groceries, wet towels, muddy shoes like the list could go on and on and on.
But, you know, I know that there have been times when I would hope I would host things in my home, but I would rather be resting, you know, but I can't because I have a house full of 30 kids or staying home because there needs to be a parent there when I'd rather be out on a date with my husband. You know, there's lots of sacrifices that we're going to have to make. But I just think it's super, super important. That we do.
Laura Dugger: (29:03 - 29:25)
Well, and I love hearing that side of it. I'm assuming you're such a both and person, too. What did you make sure that you didn't sacrifice?
Because I never hear you saying I only sacrificed for my kids so it could be better for them. But you were healthy all throughout raising them. So, does that make sense?
How did you balance your own?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (29:25 - 30:36)
No, and I appreciate you saying that, but I'm certain that there were times when I was tired, when I was selfish and that I didn't do the wise thing. But I will say that that it is so important not to sacrifice yourself because, you know, you can hear it in the analogies of, you know, you can't you can't give what you don't have. You got to fill yourself up first.
And it's all true. You know, the oxygen mask on the airplane before you give it to your children, it's so important. But I equally think it's important for your children to see.
I'm not going to be at home at dinner tonight because you know what? I'm with my besties. I'm with my girlfriends tonight.
That is important to me. Loving one another and being with one another is spoken of more in scripture than parenting, more than marriage. I mean, it is spoken of over and over and over again.
So, I want them to see that, “Hey, tonight I'm going to sacrifice time at home and I'm going to go out, be with my girlfriends”. So, there's definitely some things you have to sacrifice. But I don't want a woman to be so depleted because she's constantly giving, giving, giving, giving, giving that again, when she when their children graduate and leave home, they don't even know who they are.
They've lost sight of who God created them to be.
Laura Dugger: (30:36 - 30:39)
I appreciate your balance in that.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (30:39 - 30:41)
It's always and in both.
Laura Dugger: (30:41 - 30:43)
Yes, it really is.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (30:43 - 30:43)
It is.
Laura Dugger: (30:44 - 30:53)
How do you think we can help our kids uncover and articulate and pursue their purpose in life?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (30:54 - 32:55)
Purpose is huge for me. I'm sure you know that. It's the name of my podcast.
It's why I started the exchange. But I have to tell you, I meet with women every single day, grown women, 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s that still do not know their purpose. They don't know who they are.
So realistically, for our children, I don't want to have anyone, you know, mom beat themselves up because it does take time to help them understand, you know, who they are, why God put them here, what their purpose is. And I will say some of my kids will grasp it before others. You know, I have a son that just graduated UGA, and he still is contemplating, you know, what does God have for my life?
But as far as purpose goes, whether it's your young children, whether it's your high school children trying to figure out, do I go to college? Do I not go to college? You know, what do I major in?
All of those things. But for anyone, I want to say that it's important that they know their purpose is not what they do. But the why behind what they do.
And if someone is unsure of what that is or, you know, why they do something, I would encourage them to ask questions. That's my biggest thing. When I meet with women, when I talk with them, just ask questions, ask questions.
I mean, we don't have the answers, but to ask questions. And so, I'll ask my children, you know, when they're contemplating some of these things, “Hey, what makes you come alive? What lights you up?”
You know, who do you love to serve? What could you do for hours, hours, and hours and lose track of time? For an older woman, I would say, what did you love to do as a child?
You know, maybe what do other people say to you? Man, you make that look effortless. You are so good at fill in the blank.
What keeps you up at night? What breaks your heart? I think the answer to all of those questions lead us ultimately to what God uniquely put in our hearts to do and how he created us.
You know, when he created each one of us, he gave us something that he wants us to offer to the world. And whatever that is, I would say will lead you to your purpose.
Laura Dugger: (32:56 - 33:00)
And do you have yours articulated that you want to share with us?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (33:00 - 34:41)
Oh, it took me a long time to go, God, who did you create me to be? And asking some of those questions, it's so interesting. So, you know, I speak, I speak, you know, at the exchange and in the last 10 years, I've started speaking more at churches and other places, and it's my absolute favorite thing to do.
It lights me up. I find great joy in it. It comes natural to me.
And one day when I was asking this woman, I'm like, let me ask you, what did you love to do as a child? Like, what could you just do for hours and hours? And she's like, well, I don't know.
Can you give me some examples? And she said, what did you love to do? And it was like this light bulb went off.
And my mom was very, very, very girly. And I had three older brothers. I was not.
And my mom wanted me to be very girly. So, she would give me for every birthday, Christmas, Easter, Flag Day. It didn't matter what the holiday.
I got a Madame Alexander doll. It's this doll that has it's like on a stand and it just sits there like you don't play with it. You don't you just look at it.
I don't know the purpose of these dolls. I don't know why anyone would want one. But when I tell you I had 100 of them, I literally had 100 of them.
And so, when I was thinking back to what did I love to do as a child instinctively, no one told me to do it. I would get home after school, and I would pull out all of these dolls and I would put them on my bed and I would line them up and I would talk to them. I would tell them all about my day, what I learned, what someone taught me, the injustices of being the only girl in the family, what I'm going to do when I'm older.
And I literally that's what I did for hours. And it was like this light bulb went off. It's like God put that in me.
I was encouraging my dolls. I was talking to them. I was, you know, hopefully motivating them, inspiring them.
Obviously, they couldn't move. But that's what I do now. And encouraging women is my purpose.
Laura Dugger: (34:42 - 35:27)
I love that story so much. That's amazing. Do you love The Savvy Sauce?
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Elizabeth, do you have any tips for how we can influence our children to become lifelong learners?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (35:28 - 39:29)
Yes, I think it's super important to encourage that in your children. But I also don't think there's a formula for it because some children are naturally more curious. Some are naturally more inquisitive.
I do think it's super important to recognize that, you know, what it is that they want to learn. They want to study because it's going to be different for your children. So, you might not think that they're a learner or someone that's curious, but they're just not curious about what you're curious about.
Right. My oldest son reads a biography of presidents and historical figures all the time. He tries to get through one a week.
I couldn't think of more boring reading, but he loves, loves it. He just takes it all in. He knows all the facts and stats on presidents.
But what's funny is when he was two years old, he could name all of the presidents in order at two years old. I couldn't even do it. I had to hold up the placemat to make sure, you know, that he was right.
I have another son that studies history, loves it, just absolutely loves it. And I have a daughter who probably the one that's most like me. But I will tell you that she will be a lifelong learner of people the rest of her life.
That is her passion. She's curious. She's inquisitive.
She's always asking questions of people. And as long as we know that ultimately, it's just going to be up to them. Some are going to be great learners.
Naturally, others won't be. But I would say if you wanted me to point to something again, it just comes back to modeling it, you know, for our children, because children copy what we love, not what we lecture. They copy what we love, not what we lecture every single time.
And I remember when one time when my kids were little, they wanted me to plant a garden. And I don't know what the opposite of a green thumb is, but that's what I have. I'm like the opposite of that.
And I had no idea. Like, you dig up the grass, you till the soil. Like, when do you plant?
How do you even grow a vegetable? I had no idea. But I said, “You know what? I don't know how to do this, but let's figure it out together.”
We'll figure it out together. And, you know, I suggest that moms would say things to their kids like, I just listened to this podcast, and it really challenged my thinking.
I had never thought of it this way before. Or I don't know anything about that topic you want to talk about, but let's find out, let's dive in and look, go to the library or, you know, whatever it might be. And lastly, I would just say that it really comes down to praising effort, not performance, because if you're saying you're so smart, you know so much about that or you're so wise in that area.
It really is. It doesn't do them anything other than teach them a performance based. Right.
So, it's like I want to say the things the things to them. Like, I am so proud of you when you didn't know what you were doing. You stuck with it.
You figured it out because I think that is a growth mindset instead of like instead of driving in performance anxiety. Like, I don't know how to do this. I didn't figure it out.
I can't. You know, we really want them like, hey, I don't know what it is, but I'll figure it out. You know, and I just think when learning really becomes about grades, achievement, success, whatever it is, curiosity dies, does.
So, it's like at the dinner table. I remember David and I would ask questions of the kids, and we would ask them things like, what did you fail at today? Like, what did you mess up today?
Like, what surprised you today that you didn't know yesterday? And then David and I would share as well. Like, let me tell you what I learned.
Let me tell you where I messed up at work. And it's just important to normalize not having all the answers. You know, one of our big parenting mantras is don't bail, let them fail.
And I think it is so important because we don't want to rescue our children. You know, we want them to not know how to do something so that they can figure it out and then just learn as they go. You know, because that's really where confidence grows.
It grows through problem solving and learning things the hard way.
Laura Dugger: (39:30 - 40:01)
Wow, there's so much there. I love I'll kind of summarize a few things. So being curious ourselves, modeling it, having our own interests and sharing those ideas, but I hear this theme of questions, asking our kids questions.
I think that develops critical thinking. But then you helped identify with them what their interests were. And I think that will naturally lead to being a lifelong learner if we find what we're interested in.
You said all of your kids might be different once they found that. They'll probably be lifelong learners in those areas.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (40:01 - 40:32)
For sure. And I guess what I meant by some or more so than others like my first born, he is a five on the Enneagram. And so, his he wants to know how everything works and studies it and researches it for hours before he makes a decision where I have some other children that are like, you know, instead of ready, set, go, it's more like go, set, ready, you know, and I'll figure it out later.
I don't care. But he's just naturally more inquisitive to want to know how things work. What makes things tick?
Why does the world work the way it works? You know, that kind of thing.
Laura Dugger: (40:33 - 40:44)
Well, I don't know if this goes together or if you would share something different. But do you think there are any ways that we can help our children recognize and utilize their spiritual gifts?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (40:46 - 44:02)
Yeah, when I think about spiritual gifts, I kind of think it goes back to the purpose question that we talked about earlier. You know, again, I know a lot of adults that don't know their spiritual gifts yet. They're still questioning.
They're still I'm not really sure is it this or this or I don't know where to lean in. And it's hard for parents to help their children find their spiritual gifts when they don't know theirs, you know, or they don't know how God wired them or what he placed deep inside of them. But one thing that I would offer when you're trying to help your children with that is just as parents just notice things about your children, but notice them out loud.
What God's already doing in your children, notice them out loud, speak them out loud, like pay attention. Which child comforts the crying sibling who organizes the game so that everybody feels included? Who asks deep questions about faith or which child senses when someone, you know, is left out?
You know, those are all clues as to how God wired them and what's deep inside of them. And, you know, you can say things as simple as you know, you know, I noticed you have a gift for encouragement. You really are so good at that.
Or, hey, you know what? You notice what other people miss. That's amazing.
How do you do that? God is always giving you courage. You know, I have a son named Josh, and he's got this big Joshua one nine frame in his, you know, Bible verse in his room.
It's like God has given you a spirit of fear and but of courage and of sound mind, you know, and it's like we try to speak that courage into him or, you know, I have one son that always keeps us organized and on track. And we used to call him the traffic cop because he was always like this. But then I was like, no, that doesn't really speak life into him.
It's more of a judge. So, we were like, you know what? You are so organized.
You keep us on track. And I think when kids hear out loud like their strengths name, they begin to see them as gifts rather than just like, oh, that's just how I am. That's a person that, you know, personality court.
And as you're trying to speak those things out loud and let them see and notice things about themselves that maybe they didn't see. You can also give them opportunities to practice things like, hey, at the dinner table, you're going to pray out loud tonight for the family, for our meal, or, hey, I'd like you to help lead with our family dinner devotions or hey, you know what? I'm going to go serve this weekend at this project.
And I really want you to come alongside me and go with me. Maybe, hey, you know what? I noticed this younger sibling really needs encouragement today.
Could you just go and speak some encouragement to her? You know, handwritten notes. That's a big one in our family.
You know, literally handwritten notes, not just by a card and signing it. Love, Josh, you know, but to write out. And I think that's something that we can instill in our kids because that's a lost art.
But, you know, most importantly, more than any of that, I would say to remind your kids this gift, this spiritual gift that God has given you isn't for you. It's for someone else. Right.
A person of purpose, a hero, whatever you want to call it, is a person who takes who they are with what they have for the benefit of someone else. That's it. It's just like who they are with what they have for the benefit of someone else.
And when you do that, there's always a gift that you can offer somebody else.
Laura Dugger: (44:04 - 44:15)
Well, in another biblical topic, we know that it's a biblical command to be hospitable. So, were there any specific ways that you trained your children in hospitality?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (44:16 - 46:33)
Yeah. Hospitality was my mom's ultimate gift. It was probably the thing that she modeled the best for my brothers and for me.
We hosted foreign exchange students for months at a time. Every single Sunday. People don't believe me when I tell them this, but it's true.
Every single Sunday, we would invite a family home from church to have lunch with us that we did not know. It was never somebody that we knew. And so, on Saturday, we would prepare the house.
We would prepare the yard. We would cook the food as a family. Everybody had a role in it.
And then my dad would literally find a family that we did not know. And he would invite them home. And my parents always had their home open for Bible studies, for parties, for small groups, whatever, and whomever needed a space.
They made our home available. And I've just tried to do that for my children in my own ways because it looks very differently than, you know, the way my mom did it. But I basically think hospitality is simply just making room.
That's it. It's just making room, whether it's making room at your table, whether it's making room in your home. You know, a lot of moms are perfectionists, and they associate perfection with it.
My home's not clean enough. My home's not pretty enough. It's not perfect enough.
And so, then they don't want to do it. But I can just tell you honestly, with eight children, perfect wasn't an option, you know, anyway, but we did. We had an open-door policy for dinner.
We even had a sign on our garage door. It said dinner's at 6:30. All are welcome.
And so, anybody could come and show up to dinner any night of the week at 6:30. And all of our children, when we invited people over, everybody had to participate, not just those that were excited about it, but like the whole family, you know, whether it was setting the table, greeting the guests at the door, making eye contact and then asking them questions, clearing plates. I mean, just whatever it is.
We wanted every single person to be a part of it. And really, we just tried to say, hey, you know, this is going to cost you something, because sometimes generosity does. You might have to squeeze in at the dinner table and sit like this because we're all squeezed in and that's OK.
Or you might have three air mattresses on your floor tonight and you have to share your room. And I know you don't want to, but that's OK. I mean, it's like generosity is going to cost you something.
And we wanted our kids to know that.
Laura Dugger: (46:34 - 46:47)
Oh, such great examples. And do you have any other additional tips for ways that all of our family can actually delight in the abundant life that Christ has, that he's offered each one of us?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:49 - 48:59)
Yeah, I mean, again, I certainly do not have all the answers, and we could have made service projects and serving others more of a priority in our home, for sure. But I just I think that the abundant life in Jesus it is about serving others. It is about offering others what he's given you.
And, you know, we don't serve to earn love like we serve because we're already loved. I mean, that's really the bottom line. And that changes everything.And so, I would just encourage families to start serving together, not as a punishment, you know, not as a obligation, but just as a way of life. It's what we do. It's who we are.
And so, because of that, the abundant life for us offering it to others looked like making meals, making cupcakes, making a cake and delivering it to people. We had elderly neighbors all in our street and we mowed their yards. We picked up pinecones.
We went to the grocery store and picked up their medicine for them. You know, we made, again, handwritten notes and cards, just very small, easy, tangible, ordinary things that we could do to love on others. And I would say, let them see your joy in what you're doing, because they children do not like drudgery.
They're just going to resist it. Right. It's like but if they see you delighting and feeling full, full after serving and then giving, they appreciate you know, they appreciate that they see the joy.
And so, it's just it's important. I just think all the way around just there's Andy Stanley always says, you know, following God's principles will make your life better and it will make your life make you better at life. And so, when we follow these principles, when we serve, when we celebrate the kids serving other people with a joyful heart, you know, we celebrate their impact, not their performance, not how grand it was, not how big it was.
But hey, you made someone feel loved today. That's a really big deal. That's a really big thing.
You're eight years old. Not everybody can do that. And I am so grateful that you love Jesus so much that you would be willing to do that.
So, I just think the abundant life comes from following God's principles. You know, it's not having more. It's just loving more.
Laura Dugger: (49:00 - 49:14)
Oh, love it. You have so much wisdom to share. So, before we press pause on this conversation, because we get to continue again next week, will you just let us know where we can go in the meantime to learn more from you?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (49:15 - 49:38)
Oh, sure. If someone would like to follow me, it's on Instagram. I have my own personal one.
It's called @octomama. My kids made that long time ago. I also have the @theexchangeus.
That is that's my Instagram handle there. And then a long game parenting, writing a parenting book. And so, I do have a handle for that where I post things.
But it's called @long_game_parenting. So, yeah, wonderful.
Laura Dugger: (49:38 - 49:56)
We'll link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. And Elizabeth, this is your third time on The Savvy Sauce. So, you already know we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. nd so is my final question for you today. What is your Savvy Sauce?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (49:56 - 50:36)
I would say in light of our conversation today and in light of what I talked about and shared, it's so simple. It's just 12 words. I say it all the time.
Think what you want your kids to be and then be it. Think what you want your kids to be and then be it. And I don't mean this in terms of your career or your profession, you know, but I mean in terms of modeling for our children what we want to impress upon their heart, things of character, because the truth is, it goes back to that.
We can only take our children as far as we've gone ourselves, or we can only help our children as far as we've done the work ourselves emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically. So, think what you want your kids to be and then be it.
Laura Dugger: (50:37 - 50:46)
What a beautiful way to close out our time together today. As always, Elizabeth, you are just effervescent and time flies by when we're having conversations together.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (50:47 - 50:49)
I talk fast, so thanks for saying that.
Laura Dugger: (50:50 - 50:52)
Well, thank you for being my guest.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (50:52 - 50:55)
Absolutely. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks, Laura.
Laura Dugger: (50:56 - 54:10)
One more thing before you go.
Have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you.
But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own.
So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much.
He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what he has done for us.
Romans 10:9 says, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. So, would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place.
I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity.
In Jesus name we pray. Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him.
You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned.
So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone. Say it out loud.
Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process. And finally, be encouraged.
Luke 15:10 says, in the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents. The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with.
You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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