Titus 3:14 NIV “Our people must learn to devote themselves to doing what is good, in order that they may provide for daily necessities and not live unproductive lives.”
*Transcription Below*
Mystie Winckler and her husband, Matt, have been married for almost twenty-five years. They transplanted to Moscow, Idaho in 2022, where their children are launching and thriving, and where Matt is building their next home, which they designed for hospitality, nearly single-handedly. Second-generation homeschoolers themselves, they home educated their five kids. Three have graduated, two are still at home, and they are now grandparents to two. Find more hospitality resources at homeisforhospitality.com.
Questions and Topics We Cover:
What are a handful of ways to get started cultivating a convivial home environment to shape and nurture those within it?
How can we learn to love the work that must be done?
How can we involve our children in practicing hospitality and why is this so important to prioritize?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank
Related Savvy Sauce Episodes:
128. Best Cleaning Tips from Clean Mama, Becky Rapinchuk
168. Experiencing Joy, Connection, and Nourishment at the Table with Abby Turner
178. Fresh Take on Hospitality with Jaime Farrell
251. Wintering and Embracing Holy Hygge with Jamie Erickson
Why Are So Many People Homeschooling? With Monica Swanson (Episode 262)
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:11)
Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:32)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.
My inspiring guest for today is Misty Winkler. She is an author of multiple books, but the one that we're going to be referring to most today is entitled Home is for Hospitality.
She's going to talk about ways we can involve our children in a hospitality. She's going to introduce us to new terms, and she is just going to inspire us to grow more into what the Lord has for us so that we don't miss out on any good gift He wants to offer. [
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Misty.
Thank you so much for having me, Laura.
Well, I just want to say you are the first person who introduced me to the word convivial.
So, can you share that definition and tell us how we can create a convivial environment in our home?
Mystie Windkler: (1:33 - 4:03)
Yes, it's probably not the smartest marketing move I've ever made, but I came across this word when I was a young mom and just really latched onto it as what we are going for in our homes. You can see it's a Latin word or has Latin roots, con and vive. So that means with life.
And it's really about living life together with joy. And that's the kind of atmosphere that we want to create in our homes. We want to be doing life with our children, with our family as a whole, bringing other people into that.
And we want it to be joyful and enjoyable. And so, when you have like a convivial feast, a convivial holiday, convivial hospitality, these are usually the contexts you might encounter the word in because usually it involves food and fellowship and time set apart to enjoy life with other people, enjoy life in community. And so, our homes can be a place where that happens.
And that can give us a goal and a motivation and a purpose for some of that more mundane work that we, you know, tend to put off or disdain or dislike. It works together to create the kind of home that can be convivial if our attitudes and our heart as moms are in order, where you can have a clean home that's all put together. But if there is no joy there, it's not doing the good work it was meant to do.
And really, I think that moms are the atmosphere of their home. And so, it's our attitude and mood and mindset that sets the tone for everyone else. And any dinnertime fellowship or school table fellowship, any kind of time we're together with other people, we're setting the tone for that.
And so, we need to keep some kind of focus on what kind of tone we want to bring to the situation. And so convivial has always helped me try to bring the right tone to family gatherings.
Laura Dugger: (4:04 - 4:22)
I love that, whether it's preparing for holidays or a summer break or just your regular week. I love that you say live with a tone of merrymaking. It's so encouraging.
But what would you say keeps us from maintaining a convivial home environment?
Mystie Windkler: (4:23 - 5:28)
Oh, all kinds of things. You know, we always tend, I find this for myself and I hear this all the time from other moms, that we look around our homes and usually only see the things that are not the way we want them to be. We see the work that's undone rather than the work that we have done.
We see our children's misbehaviors more than their progress. We focus on what we still have to do or all that we could possibly still do in the future. And then that weighs on us and kind of kills, kills the mood, kills the atmosphere if we are carrying that burden of trying to do it all and not really having a filter of priorities to discern where we should be in the moment.
Laura Dugger: (5:30 - 5:54)
Wow, that's so good because there's so much we could be doing. Is there a way, my husband and I talk about this, where if you wrote all of your priorities or all the things that you want to get done, if you wrote them in a card, you don't just flip over the next one and start doing it. You kind of want to flip them all over and see all of them.
Is there a way that you systematically prioritize or do you have filters in place?
Mystie Windkler: (5:55 - 9:47)
Yeah, I think writing down those priorities, it might take up more space than just a card. If we're being honest with ourselves and feel like all the things that you feel like you could be doing or should be doing, I call it a brain dump. Other people call it a brain dump.
You just write that all down, and it helps to see the words on paper rather than just feel their presence in your mind. It's just pressure and tension and like swirling thoughts when it stays in your mind. And so, writing it down and being able to see it on paper, I think, helps us recognize when we're totally unrealistic.
And it's easier to filter those things and say, okay, I can see why I thought maybe I should pull out the stove to clean out behind it. But really, that's not a big deal. And it just helps us recognize, oh, I'm seeing all of these things.
Why am I even paying attention to that? And we can cross things off. And doing that physically and visually helps our mind organize it and set it aside.
And then we can highlight or circle or move over to a clean list the actual priorities. And so, when I was in the thick of homeschooling years, one of my top priorities was being in fellowship with the kids. And, I mean, homeschooling is hard, but doing it in fellowship with everyone and keeping all the siblings in fellowship is harder.
But that's the most important part, because that's living together in the Lord that He calls us to. And it's the relationships and that discipleship in relationships, which is the whole reason we were homeschooling in the first place. And the real job that God had given my husband and I as parents was to teach them how to live together with other people well.
How do you ask for forgiveness? If you're going to have practice asking for forgiveness and receiving forgiveness, that takes a lot of coaching and practice. And so, I mean, thankfully, God gave us lots of opportunities for asking for forgiveness from one another.
Me to the kids, the kids to me, the kids between each other. And that practice again and again was the most important work. And so other things would be set aside for that.
And that helped also just in prioritizing what do we need to be working on? What do I need to be paying attention to? Because oftentimes, you know, it's my distractedness or my unnecessary stress about other things that crowds in and makes me short with them.
That makes me not listen to what they're really saying and then respond and appropriately. And then I'm the one creating that relational mess. And so, when we prioritize being in fellowship with one another, then that's motivation and practice for not being distracted.
For recognizing that's doing all of us no good. And it's, you know, we maybe have had enough practice on that now and we could use a little less practice. I could just actually pay attention to my children and give them what they need in the moment.
Laura Dugger: (9:48 - 10:04)
I love that, Misty. And it makes me wonder, even building on that, are there a handful of ways that you think we could get started cultivating a convivial home and helping our environment to shape and nurture those who are living in it?
Mystie Windkler: (10:05 - 14:25)
Yes. I know it's when you, like, search YouTube or podcasts or magazines for homemaking stuff, usually what you get first and foremost are all the aesthetics. Decorating, fragrances, candles, all the things.
And those are a part of the atmosphere of the home. But what matters more, especially to children, is that a present mom who's paying attention and loves her children. That matters more than anything else about the home decor or the color scheme or whether or not everything goes or is seasonally appropriate.
Mom's demeanor and her care for the children has the biggest effect. And our demeanor and our tone might be somewhat affected by our surroundings, but we have more self-control than that. It's more of our inner peace and beauty and joy coming out that creates a beautiful home.
And just doing all of the work to create a beautiful home is not actually going to do anything to our hearts. Although we like to think, like, once everything's together, then I'll feel better. But we actually have to start with our hearts before God and get our hearts right and abiding in the Lord before we can have His joy, which then that comes out in our relationships and our home.
And that's the proper ordering. And one time where this really was brought home to me, I was in the kitchen. You know, it was like the middle of a busy, normal homeschool day.
And I was in the kitchen, you know, probably trying to get something done that was not school. And I didn't feel grumpy or upset or frustrated or anything. I felt like, OK, I have I was like tracking the things I have to do that day and figuring out how I could fit it all in.
And, you know, actually kind of feeling like I probably have this together, but I'm thinking hard about it. And one child walked by and I forget if it was a look or something they said, but I realized they thought I was angry or upset about whatever I was doing or about them. And I realized that even though I thought I was in like peak homemaker mode, getting all the things done, my face was serious and like thoughtful, like probably a little bit frowny, like just thinking hard.
And that looks like an angry face, an upset face, and that's what my children were actually seeing. And so, I realized I needed to to actually be intentional about just smiling, whether or not I felt like it. But especially if I, you know, I'm just doing my normal work, I actually need to be doing that work, smiling.
If I want to communicate to my children that it's good work, that I like it and that I like being with them. If I want to communicate that, my face needs to show it. And so, I actually put smile on the top of my to do list for months to build this habit and to make it a top priority.
It had to bump other things down. It had to, you know, it was the first thing that I saw on my list every day, smile. And I wrote it out every day, and it was humbling and it was what we all needed.
And so, I built that habit of any time my children or my husband walked through the door, and my husband also worked from home. So, like there were always people coming in through different doorways. I would look up, look them in the eye and smile.
And that by far and away had the biggest positive effect in just our overall family flow and fellowship and connection.
Laura Dugger: (14:26 - 16:51)
That's so practical because I'm sure you're familiar with Jamie Erickson, a fellow author and high school mom. She was a guest on Holy Hygge and just talking about the heart is what we're going after. And yet the Lord does have ways that either the transformation starts from the inside out or like smiling.
There really is even a scientific backing about this, that the outside impacts the internal as well. And so, I love how you've modeled that. Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched. Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa, which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty.
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In my quiet time recently, I was just struck by Proverbs 14:23, and it says, “In all labor there is profit.” And so even though you're talking about work that we may not always want to do, how can we actually learn to love the work that must be done? Because you teach well on this.
Mystie Windkler: (16:52 - 19:44)
Yes, it was a quote from Goethe that I saw again, right, you know, when the kids were all little, and he's like a 16th, 17th century German philosopher. And I was like; it's like cease trying to do what you want to do and learn to love what must be done. And I was like, you know, this is from a guy who's never had to clean toilets.
But like it just stuck in my head, and it would like circle around. And I realized that I was spending a lot of time viewing housework, especially the housework that like felt to demeaning, like cleaning toilets or scrubbing, you know, maybe cleaning up somebody else's vomit, these kind of things that moms have to do. And I saw it as work getting in the way of other things I could be doing, other things I wanted to do.
You know, the more fun work like decorating or pulling together some kind of event or reading a book. And this mundane work would just was just getting in the way. And I realized that most of that mundane work really is the caretaking work, the work of caring for people.
And so, if we are doing that work, like if you're cleaning the toilets and your focus is on the toilet in front of you, like then it just feels really gross and like you don't want to be there. But if you recognize that you are putting in the effort needed to make your home a place that's fit for people, that's going to help grow and nurture and develop your children into the kind of people you want them to be. If you are creating a home where guests will feel cared for and welcomed, then that's meaningful work that we can experience a real satisfaction in the work done when we're thinking about its purpose and what it's serving and that it's it's not demeaning to provide a clean environment for other people.
I think that's a part of what Jesus was telling us when he was washed his disciples’ feet. You can get your hands dirty. You can get down on the ground and scrub and clean people.
And that is actually work with purpose and honor. It's not demeaning because Christ himself has done it.
Laura Dugger: (19:45 - 20:11)
That's so good and really does have eternal value and implications. And there's another proverb, specifically Proverbs 6, 8, that says she prepares her food in the summer and brings in her provisions of food for the winter and the harvest. So, Misty, what are some ways that we can apply the wisdom of this verse to our lives?
Mystie Windkler: (20:14 - 24:04)
Yeah, I think so many of us are looking for the planner or the system that we can purchase and just install so that we can be that Proverbs 31 woman or that woman looking well to the ways of our household, getting all the things done, being prepared, having the perfect meal plan and all the groceries arriving at just the right time. And we think that that's something that probably someone else has figured out. If we could just find that person who has it figured out and we could copy and paste it into our own lives, then we'd be set.
And that's just not the way that homes and families and life works. And so, when the Proverbs is describing a wise wife and a wife who is helping her husband be in the gates and her children rise up and call her blessed. And in those situations, it's because she is looking at what's right in front of her and doing what needs to be done in her situation for her family.
Its homemaking is much more of a personal management job than like a project management or a machine management job. And so, we have to watch out for using machine like metaphors. For our home and people caretaking work, because the home does not operate by any kind of plug and play formula where you can copy and paste someone else's plan into your home and just have it automatically work.
We are supposed to learn from one another and help, you know, pass on good knowledge and methods and we can learn tips and tricks from one another. But it's always going to be personally applied to the particular family and the particular situation. Like even the cleaning plan that has worked for me in one household in one season of life completely doesn't work in a different house, in a different town, in a different season of life.
So, there isn't any size that fits all. There's a wife given to a home who figures out how to make that home flourish. And it's a more meaningful job.
It's a lot more responsibility than just discovering the right plug and play formula. But it is fulfilling and satisfying work that really never ends. And that's another discouragement that I think homemakers so often feel is we think our job is to find the routines or the plan that reduce the effort almost to the point of not existing anymore.
Like if I just had the right laundry routine, somehow there would actually never be laundry. And when we become aware that we're thinking of finishing the laundry or being done, we can maybe start to recognize like, oh, wait a second. I'm not like this isn't the way life really works.
So, I need to change my focus and change my definition of what I'm going for. My job is not to finish the laundry. My job is just to do the next load and really remove some of that perfectionist pressure that we so often feel.
Laura Dugger: (24:05 - 24:27)
I love that. And something that I think you're passionate about is having no one miss out on the gift of hospitality and the blessings that come with following that command from the Bible. So, will you share your vision for hospitality, along with maybe some of the lesser thought of benefits?
Mystie Windkler: (24:29 - 29:35)
Yeah, our homes really are for hospitality. And I think when we see them that way, it helps us recognize the meaning in the work and the joy of the work. So, hospitality is helping people flourish.
And so, I like to think, you know, usually when we think of hospitality, just in our culture, I mean, sometimes if you look, if you start researching hospitality, like the restaurant and hotel business is actually what comes up on searches, which is does not translate to homes. But hospitality is about sharing life, your life by sharing your space and your stuff. And so, we do that as families.
And so, I like to see hospitality as kind of three concentric circles. And so, hospitality starts in the center with our own family, the people who live in our home. And if we are hospitable with one another, then any other layer of hospitality is going to feel hypocritical.
It's going to be hypocritical. It's going to be fake. It's going to be hard.
We want it. We want hospitality to others to actually be a natural extension of what already exists in our home. So, the place to start with hospitality isn't necessarily an invitation for someone else to come in but is actually recognizing how to increase the hospitality in your own home.
I recognize this in a very convicting way. Once when I was being too harsh and loud with my children to get something done that they had not done, I told them to do it. And then the doorbell rang or the phone rang and I picked it up.
And my tone, the tone that I was speaking with instantly changed. And in that moment, the Lord brought that as a point of conviction, like, look at what you can do. Look at how stark a difference that was and how you were just speaking to your children and how you are now speaking to a stranger.
And that ought not be. And I clearly could instantly change my tone if I wanted to, because I did. And I could do that with my children also.
It didn't matter how I felt. It didn't matter that they should have done the thing already. My tone is my responsibility, and I have the capacity, the ability to use the right tone, an appropriate tone, no matter who I'm speaking to or what the situation is.
And so that hospitality is speaking with love and grace to our children and our husband. And it is sharing meals together around the family dinner table. And it is working together as a team instead of with a bickering.
And that sets the groundwork for hospitality within the family. And when you have that hospitality as a core, you can let it overflow into hospitality within the church community, which is supposed to function like an extended family. So, your church family is the body of Christ that you are connected to, and you should be in one another's homes, sharing your life and your stuff with one another.
It's one of the ways the church is supposed to function. And that means inviting people in and getting to know one another in normal life situations. And so, hospitality should include having some other moms and children over for a play date or having the new family coming to church over for dinner to get to know them, hosting the weekly Bible study in your home.
These are the kinds of love to the body of Christ that means so much more and are so much more effective when they happen through the sharing of our homes and of ourselves because it is our own personal space. And so that is the second of the circles. And when we have that, when we're living together in fellowship with the body of Christ, then we can also be effective when we offer hospitality to strangers, to those outside the church and do more evangelistic type hospitality.
Laura Dugger: (29:36 - 30:15)
I love that. And we say in our family, like the greatest gift is being invited into someone's home. There's just nothing quite like it.
But Misty, when we have our household in order, then it probably seems easier and more likely to obey this biblical command for hospitality. But I love how you flip the paradigm in your book and you write, the best way to deal with the chaos of accumulated cups and clutter and crumbs is to invite someone over. It's like reverse engineering to achieve the end you want.
So, will you just say more about that?
Mystie Windkler: (30:17 - 32:48)
Yes. We usually think, oh, well, you know, I have to do all the work first and then we'll be ready to invite people over. But I think we've all also experienced the panic clean of realizing someone's going to come over.
And it gives you a new set of eyes, really, to see your own home through what someone else coming into your home might see. That helps you take care of things a little bit differently or not just gloss over things. I am much more of a living in my head person rather than noticing my surroundings kind of person.
And so, it was very helpful to me when we started hosting a weekly Bible study to have a whole group of people coming every single week. It made me actually open up my eyes and pay attention to my surroundings and get things ready for a group of people. Actually, just last week, I got an email from a podcast listener who said the only time I seem to be able to get the house clean is when we invite someone over.
And she was saying this was a problem that she wanted to fix. I was like, sounds like you've figured out what works for you. Just invite people over more often.
And this is actually what I found is the more I kind of leaned into hospitality as a housekeeping strategy because I needed that deadline and that reason to pay attention to my space. And when we had done that regularly enough or enough times and with not that much space in between, I started practicing ways to keep things up better so that it wouldn't be so bad because I knew we'd have Bible study again next week. And so how can I not let things devolve so quickly?
And it gave me a reason to really pay attention to the space and to my strategies while also serving in the church and serving alongside my whole family, bringing the kids with chores and giving them practice and hosting. It became how I learned to manage a home because there was that deadline. And a reason to really work at it.
Laura Dugger: (32:49 - 33:28)
We also drop another countercultural truth on page 27. When you say homes are essentially social, not merely private. A home kept exclusively private to the family is a truncated, abbreviated partial home.
We all have some way, some opportunity to offer human connection to others with our homes. And so, I love this, Misty, because we can get too comfortable thinking this home is only for our family. But why is that actually just a partial truth?
Mystie Windkler: (33:29 - 36:29)
Well, we are supposed to live in community as a family and then as a church body. And it's actually really from the Industrial Revolution where this idea of the home as a private retreat came about. It really didn't exist until modern times.
So, this is actually just the historic view of the home where for the most part, most people did their vocational income generating work within the home too. You know, the shopkeeper lived up on the second floor of the shop. This idea of going out to the workplace and then coming home to a private retreat is modern.
And I think that some of our angst and trouble with our place in the home and what it means to be a homemaker is because the home has been socially constricted and truncated just in the world, the way that society is now structured. But if we can look back and, you know, whether it's through reading older stories and literature or histories and to see this larger function that the home used to provide. You know, even if you think of doctors used to be based mostly out of their home and then went and made home visits.
Like the doctor had the skill and he took that with him to where the people were, which was homes. And its modern society that has like given this office spaces for offices and the hospital is for this. And we like we love to categorize and box things up and separate them.
But we actually function better as society and as humans within society when those different parts of our life all interweave and intersect. And as homemakers, we have the opportunity to bring some of that back by doing more out of our home, using our homes as places where the church and the family and society can be built up more. I mean, homeschooling is just one of the real practical ways to do that, where you're bringing education out of a separate building and just like whatever, eight to three time period of the day and bringing it into a whole lifestyle.
And I think there are other ways that we can do that and use our home to connect people and social functioning. Just so much more richly because it's more personal.
Laura Dugger: (36:30 - 36:57)
So, I love your connection between community and hospitality. And you write about it on page 95 where you say, God made food to feed us on many levels, especially when we eat with others. Meals are inherently special when they are shared.
So, will you just say more about the opportunity for connection and community that is fostered when we gather around the table?
Mystie Windkler: (37:00 - 39:03)
Yeah, I think it's so important to recognize that feeding our people, all the work that goes into meal planning and then cooking and getting it on the table and even cleaning up afterwards is not just about bare fueling. We are fueling bodies, but it really is doing so much more. And that's why every holiday has its core menu.
It's essential foods. Food is a core piece of our holiday celebrations for this very reason. It's just baked into us as humans.
God invites us to a meal when we worship with the Lord's Supper. This is the way God has made us to operate. He created the garden and gave us food, and He is doing so much more with it than we realize.
Very much more than just the various nutritional elements helping our bodies go. That's happening. But in the same way, our relationships are being nurtured and fed by eating together and sharing food together.
And so, I think we can find a lot more joy and hope and satisfaction in all the time that we do put into food as moms. It's very easy to get dissatisfied and disgruntled with just how much time food takes. But I think if we recognized how much was really happening and how vital it is to human connection and human flourishing, to have good food shared with love with other people is just mind-blowing.
And so, we can truly enjoy that work and the percentage of our time spent doing that work when we recognize how meaningful it is.
Laura Dugger: (39:04 - 40:11)
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Mystie Windkler: (40:12 - 46:28)
Yes, I know my husband and I received hospitality many times in our early marriage that really helped to give us a vision for what we wanted our family to be like. But the people who invited us over had no idea that was happening. You know, they invited us over for dinner and we got so much more than just the food and conversation.
We also saw other families functioning and that gave us a picture of what it could be like that really helped lead us in different directions and shape us as we started our own family. And then there was especially this one time where we kind of saw maybe the mirror image of that, you know, a different angle of that. When we were offering hospitality, we went through a season of my husband trying to invite his co-workers.
This was before he worked from home. He worked in an office and so he tried to invite co-workers over for dinner. You know, most of them are not Christians and most of them turned us down.
We had a very hard time having people even accept a dinner invitation, which just seems wild. But they didn't want their lives intermingled. I think was a big part of it.
Like that's vulnerable to put yourself in that space and place. And so, most people just didn't want to do that. But we did have one couple.
They were not believers. They had one six- or seven-year-old son, and they came over for dinner. It was just a pretty normal family dinner.
I think at that time our fourth born was a baby. And, you know, as the hostess, I saw the things that could have been better during that meal for sure. But she kept like her eyes were wide the whole time as she's watching what's going on here.
And you could tell she was confused. And like she had never seen probably she'd never seen a family with four kids. Honestly, much less a family sitting around a table and having the kids sit at the table.
You know, her child was not had did not have any table manners. I probably I mean, I guess had never been asked to sit at a table with other people to eat. And like my kids were not perfect.
But, you know, they did. We also had company. And so, they had their company manners on.
And then it was the end of the meal. And so, like at that time, my oldest would have been like eight or nine and on down. And I said, OK, guys, can you help me clear the table for I think I just like clear the table.
And my two older ones just got up and did most of the clearing work while I was, you know, hostessing and trying to facilitate the conversation. And she just almost lost it with amazement. And she asked, like, how do you get them to help without them arguing?
You know, how how do they just help without you? And, you know, I knew that they knew that once the table was cleared, that's when dessert comes out. So that was definitely part of it.
But also, like they had practice. And, you know, this it's not like they never argued for sure. But they did have company manners and they were using them.
And that comes from discipline and practice. And she had just never seen anything like that. And it just struck me at the time because I didn't know how to answer her question.
You know, I couldn't give her some quick tips that would help her with her one child who had never really been asked to sit still for any reason. How to do that in just one day. You know, it's a different life that we're living.
And so, I couldn't give her quick tips or an answer. But what having dinner together did do is give her a picture of what was possible that she'd actually never experienced before. So, she grew up and her personal experience was just that kids misbehave and there's nothing you can really do about it.
And, you know, her picture of what life could be or was, was completely thrown out of whack by seeing our family. And I think that that is something that's a way to be a witness to people that we don't recognize. That so much of our desires and our goals and reasons and methods for working come from seeing it in other people.
Just like my husband and I saw other families doing particular things when they had us over for dinner. And we said, oh, that's like we would love our family to be like that. And so, hospitality gave us some of those pictures.
And here we offered hospitality and this family saw something they'd never seen before. And even if we can't answer everyone's parenting questions in a single dinner evening, we can share a picture of what a functioning, loving Christian family is. And more and more people are really starved for that kind of life and picture and love because they've never even actually seen it.
They've never considered that it's really possible.
Laura Dugger: (46:29 - 46:47)
And that actually could be one of the most powerful apologetics for them, even more than the words we speak. Yes. So how can we involve our children then in practicing hospitality?
And why is that important for us to prioritize?
Mystie Windkler: (46:49 - 49:40)
Yeah, well, with that concentric circle vision of hospitality, it has to start with our family. And so that was one thing when my husband and I decided to really go all in on hospitality as a family. We didn't want it to be just something I did or just something we did as a couple.
And then the kids had to kind of tag along. But we really wanted to make it something everyone was a part of. And, you know, we've all experienced those times where we're getting ready, having someone over for dinner, and, you know, barking commands at the kids to get things done or kicking them under the table for their bad table manners while guests are, you know, we're kind of ruining the day for our children while trying to create this special event for other people.
And we really wanted to go into it intentional to not do that. And so, for me, mostly that meant starting a lot more in advance in the day than I would have, like giving it a lot more time because I was going to be inviting the children's help into it. So that means it's going to take more time.
But it would also mean that we were able to extend that hospitality in a way where the children received the love and care and nurture throughout the day that they needed. So, they didn't feel like something was being stolen from them as we were getting ready for guests. They were on the team.
They weren't suffering for this time we're giving to other people. And so, you know, they all had different jobs. Of course, everyone helped pick up.
I would always assign like the tablecloth and setting the table to children like, you know, an hour before people were coming over, not just right before. And, you know, I might look over and straighten up a few things. But even if they didn't do it perfectly, it was still their contribution.
And I just let it stand. We don't need to be offering a fine dining experience to offer hospitality. We want to be offering our life and ourselves.
And so, if that meant our whole family life, then that meant, you know, whatever. However, the children contributed, that was their contribution. And I just let it stand for what it was and valued their work.
Even if I could have done it better, that didn't actually matter. It mattered that they brought their own effort to it. And it was good enough.
And it was a blessing.
Laura Dugger: (49:41 - 50:15)
Well, you also teach how hospitality is an expression of generous love. So, it is going to cost us something to host. It's going to cost us our energy.
It'll require time and money. Yet God tells us to show hospitality to one another without grumbling. So, recognizing that there is a cost, how can we still cheerfully look to increase our capacity for this good work?
Mystie Windkler: (50:17 - 52:19)
Yes. Years ago, the pastor at our previous church did a series on hospitality, and he preached on that verse. And I remember him pointing out, if you've never been tempted to grumble by hospitality you've extended, you've probably never extended hospitality, really.
Like the command is there because this is what we need. There's going to be things that don't go your way. It is giving of yourself.
It is a sacrifice in different ways. And so, there is real joy in offering sacrifice to others, though, as Christians, because that's the kind of sacrificial love that we've received. So, if we're really grateful and joyful for that salvation that we've received, then we're going to also give it.
We have it to give only because we've received it. And because we've received it, it is a joy and a blessing and privilege to be able to offer it to others. And so, if dishes break, you know, the couch gets worn or stained, all the different bumps and scrapes and, you know, extra hard use on stuff that happens when you extend hospitality is part of what those things were for in the first place.
So, our homes are not meant to be trophies that just sit on a shelf for display. Our homes are meant to be used for helping people flourish. So, whether that's just our family life or also family life, while bringing other people in, the stuff is there as a tool to be used, not a trophy to just look pretty and have people admire.
Laura Dugger: (52:21 - 52:35)
Well, and you also write that kind of that idea of we need to have the wisdom to show restraint and so not to overextend ourselves. Yes. Anything that you'd want to share on that topic?
Mystie Windkler: (52:36 - 54:46)
Yeah, I think recognizing that hospitality is just giving of your real self and your real home. And that is so much more of a blessing than we realize. It's so easy to make hospitality this big effort that we're going to bestow this blessing on other people when really the kind of love and fellowship that people are hungry for and that really satisfies that longing for connection is just average sharing of real life where the house is not fully put together.
It's not fully decluttered. It is, you know, just a normal family meal, not something special. I think those are the kinds of hospitality that really feed people's souls so much, especially these days where so few families actually even do eat dinner at the dinner table.
It's not very common anymore. And so, to just have a base level of family dinner hospitality casts a vision for others and really shares a real life in a relatable way instead of an impressive way. The point isn't to impress.
It's to share life. And so, I find people are much more blessed to come into life in progress in your house and just enjoy life with you in your real space. You know, clean the bathroom so no one gets sick.
But, you know, move things off the couch so you can sit down and give people a drink of water as you visit. And don't sweat the details or that the house isn't what all you had hoped it was when they walked through the door. Sharing real life is hospitality.
That's real hospitality.
Laura Dugger: (54:47 - 55:20)
Well said. And this is a different topic, but I did appreciate how you addressed it because women have recently shared how difficult it can be when their last child leaves the home. And I just appreciated the encouragement you provided in your book.
You said, God will not leave us bereaved of service when our children leave. He has new work for us in every season. So, I'm curious if there's any further encouragement that you'd like to communicate around this topic.
Mystie Windkler: (55:22 - 59:25)
Yeah, I'm not quite there myself. Only two of my five kids are still living with us at home. Three are launched and doing their own life, actually doing their own hospitality, which is very cool.
But I've been thinking about it so much more and watching other women handle that transition. And it's so easy to be so caught up in motherhood, I think, especially when you're homeschooling and so much of your day and your effort is going into raising these children, that then when they actually are off doing other things and they're not your primary responsibility anymore, when they're not taking up all your time, so many moms have not thought about what they will do then or not recognize that that time was right around the corner because it really does go so quickly.
You go from being all in with all the children, doing all the things to launching and graduating and suddenly being an empty nest. That feels like it happens at light speed once the dominoes start falling. And so, then you find yourself just with a completely different lifestyle.
And if you haven't thought about it or recognize that that's coming, it can really throw you off, off balance. And you're not sure so much of yourself is poured into the children that when they're not there anymore, it's hard to know what to do. And this is where being connected with your church really becomes so vital because there are so many young moms and other people in the church who need mothering, who need a wise woman to come step in and help out or take them coffee or do mentoring just like Titus 2 says older women should be doing.
And so, once your own children are out of the nest or leaving the nest, I do think it's very healthy for us as involved mothers to just keep that eye open for the opportunities within the community and within the church that God has prepared for us, that He calls us to. There will be opportunities that do boil down to hospitality. They boil down to maybe opening your home, but even just being home wherever you go.
You go out into the world and help other people thrive where God has called them. That is the job of a mother. And we can extend that kind of motherly care that's been matured in us through the furnace of motherhood.
That then is a skill and maturity and blessing that there are other people that God wants us to pour that into. And God says for us to walk in the good works that He has prepared for us to walk in. No matter what season of life we're in, there are good works that God has prepared us to walk in.
And so, we have to keep our eyes open, aware that there's going to be something for us to do. Our job isn't done. There's still plenty of work to be done if we just have eyes to see what God's prepared and put in front of us.
Laura Dugger: (59:27 - 59:39)
Well, I appreciate that you've written about topics like these and so many others and you speak on them as well and host your podcast. So, can you direct us to places we can go after this chat to continue learning from you?
Mystie Windkler: (59:40 - 59:51)
Yes, thank you. I have a podcast, YouTube channel and blog. And you can find links to all those things and my books at simplyconvivial.com.
Laura Dugger: (59:51 - 1:00:09)
Wonderful. We will put the links in the show notes for today's episode. But you may be familiar.
We're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Mystie Windkler: (1:00:11 - 1:03:05)
My go to savvy practice is a daily card, a top three daily card. I am a to-do list kind of person, and my to-do lists can easily get to be a mile long. And so early on, I have always loved to read productivity books and most of them will say to have a top three for the day.
David Allen's Getting Things Done was a super helpful book that I read. I think I read it like postpartum after my third baby. And there was a lot of it that I was like, oh, this does not fit for moms like this is just for office workers.
And then but then as I would actually try several of his tactics, it's like, OK, maybe it doesn't work in the same way that he describes in the book. But actually, this can work for moms, too. And a daily top three was one of them as moms.
I think it's so helpful to have a focus for sure. And like I said earlier, it was this top three list that one of them was a smile for months on end because that's what I needed to see. And with as moms, our days can go off the rail so quickly, you know, that we can have a plan, and we can think that this day is going to be about getting this stuff done.
And then the kids are sick and are what we actually need to do shifts very dramatically just in the course of a day sometimes. And I find that the daily card, which I write just on an index card or or a post-it note. Means that if the day shifts and the priorities that I thought were my priorities for the day change, I just toss the card and write a new one.
And that is just a quick tactic that helps me recognize and tell myself and reinforce that all that stuff that I thought I was going to get done, it's not actually going to get done. We're just going to, you know, keep the house sanitary and comfort sick children or whatever is, you know, the emergency. One time it was the washing machine overflowed and so there was flowing water into the kitchen.
It's like, well, this is the job for the day. And to just have something physical to, like, toss the old to do list, write a new one helps me keep my head in the game and pay attention to where I am and move on from thinking about what I wish I could have done instead.
Laura Dugger: (1:03:06 - 1:03:29)
Okay, I may have to implement that. That is so realistic for the life of a mother. And Miss, you are just convivial indeed.
You really are the definition of that word that you shared with us at the beginning. So, it sums you up. And I'm so grateful for this time together.
You have a very peaceful presence. And I just want to say thank you for being my guest.
Mystie Windkler: (1:03:30 - 1:03:31)
Thank you so much.
Laura Dugger: (1:03:32 - 1:07:15)
One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.
This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.
Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.
And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.
First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce
Practical chats for intentional living
A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.
They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!
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