1 Timothy 6:6-10 (NIV) "But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."

*Transcription Below*

Markie Castle is a wife of 41 years, mother of 3 and is blessed with 7 grandchildren. After teaching at ICC for 20 years, she retired to help take care of all those blessings! Her husband Bob and she have been living in Peoria and attending Bethany Baptist Church for 24 years. She has been coaching on finances and families for over 30 years.

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

What is one key to managing our personal relationship with finances?
What have been the most unexpected benefits of coaching your sons on wise financial stewardship?
How did you teach your children to allocate percentages their money?

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

*Transcription*

Music: (0:00 – 0:09)

Laura Dugger: (0:10 - 1:20) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Their weekend marriage retreats will strengthen your marriage while you enjoy the gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org/savvy.

I first met Markie Castle through a local mom's group that was gathering at a church, and she was the speaker.

I was drawn to her sense of humor, her storytelling, and her wise practices. Her practical applications that she's going to explain near the end of this episode are practices that my husband Mark and I plan to implement beginning today. I'm so excited to share all of that with each of us listening now.

Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Markie.

Markie Castle: (1:21 - 1:22) It's a pleasure to be here.

Laura Dugger: (1:22 - 1:34) Well, will you just start us off by sharing more about your family and, specifically, the parenting piece that you say you got right by intentionally focusing on it?

Markie Castle: (1:35 - 4:13) I'd love to. I am incredibly blessed to be married to my husband, Bob, and we had three children that blessed us with wonderful wives and grandchildren. My husband and I started our marriage with him in school and me on a beginning teaching salary.

Today's dollars, it would be worth about $38,000. The two of us were living on $38,000 a year with him in school at the U of I and paying significant tuition. We were paying the tuition as well as supporting ourselves on that salary.

We were blessed to have a son three years later and then another son two years after that. My husband was holding a two-year-old and a two-week-old in his cap and gown. I remember showing our three sons’ pictures of us saying, don't do this.

We supported ourselves entirely. We also did not see that we were in dire straits. We made my salary work by living in small apartments.

With one landlord, we made an agreement with him that we would do extra work around the property for a deduction in rent. We just made it work. We never saw any of this as a negative.

We also did not see that putting purchases on a credit card that we could not pay off at the end of the month as an option. We were happy where we were at and we loved it. My husband got a job and we moved out of the area.

We were at the time in Champaign-Urbana area. We moved to the Peoria area. We had a third son, which gave us three children in four years.

We still saw the need to keep our budget under control. Our meals were determined by what was on sale, what we had coupons for. Clothes were only bought on sale or from consignment shops.

Again, we never saw credit card debt as an option. If we didn't have the money, we didn't buy it. We wanted to raise our children to have a respect for money and to have an awareness of contentment.

We also wanted to have them experience the joy of having money to give away. This is what helped us. This is how we felt and we wanted to share that with our sons.

Laura Dugger: (4:14 - 4:37) I love that and I can just imagine all of the character building that comes out of really seeking to be wise stewards of what the Lord's entrusted to you. I'm wondering if you had some guiding scriptures on this topic of finances that really gave you insight into godly wisdom rather than the worldly kind.

Markie Castle: (4:38 - 9:05) As we know, besides love, money is written more in the Bible than anything else. It is so wise to go to the Bible for this. Luke 14:28 is such a good verse for a base.

It says, “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won't you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it?” This is stating that we should budget our money and plan before we build a tower or buy a car or even buy a new blouse that you may want.

Another verse, 1Timothy 6:6-10 speaks to another extremely important part of leading a God-centered life, being content. It states, “But godliness with contentment is great gain for we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Some people eager for money have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”

It reminds us of where our minds should be. We have heard many talks on finances, budgeting, etc. Very little time, if any, is spent on being content.

Even in the Christian financial counseling speakers, they do not spend time on this. Not only is it scriptural, it is something that makes budgeting and spending so much easier. If you are content, you don't feel that need to spend and let alone overspend.

It just makes budgeting so much easier. Matthew 6:24 is very blunt to the point. It says, “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

It's not just what you have in your bank account. It's are we serving the Lord or are we serving money by needing a bigger house or whatever. Serving money over God can mean so many things. It can mean making secret purchases that you are hiding from your spouse.

I had a friend who used to have her sister buy her shoes that she wanted. And then she would bring them into the house without her husband knowing. But she had her sister buy it so her husband didn't see it on the credit card.

Or it can mean buying a brand-new car you can't afford and you go into debt for it. There is scripture that addresses this also in Romans 13:8 states, “Owe no one anything except to love each other.” And Proverbs 22:7 states, “The borrower is the slave of the lender.”

This is not to say a person should never have a loan. We needed a loan for our house. It was a smart move because we would have just paid rent forever.

But we needed a house and at the time we didn't have money for a house. Especially since my husband just got out of school. But when we were going looking at houses, the realtor said, “But you can afford this.”

And it was a much bigger house than we needed. And we said, “No, we don't need this.” “Yes, but you can get this.”

“Yes, I know, but this one's just fine.” We bought a house that we were able to pay off quickly. And we were very happy with it.

Laura Dugger: (9:07 - 9:30) I love hearing how you've applied scripture to your own lives, because really the ones that you shared, those are so practical and actionable. And we didn't even scratch the surface of all, like you said, that the Bible has to speak about money. But if you kind of had to boil it down, what would you say is one key to managing our personal relationship with finances?

Markie Castle: (9:30 - 13:58) I truly, truly believe that being content is truly key. It's so easy to become frustrated and discouraged with what you have. And many, many people watch HGTV.

And I personally love it. There are times that I cannot watch HGTV because I start wanting this or wanting that. When I watch it, it makes me start thinking if I only had a bigger kitchen or buying new furniture would transform this room.

All of these things can distract us into thinking about all the things I don't have, rather than seeing the things I do have. It can be a very dark road. But there's ways of overcoming that too.

I love for people to write down things that you do have, especially the important things like your family, your friends, your church community. Those are the things that are far more important than a bigger kitchen. I know for me, our house, when I moved into our house, I didn't even see our house when we purchased it because we thought we'd only be here three to four years max.

So, I figured three to four years, I don't need to see a house. I wanted it in a certain area and I needed four bedrooms for all of us. And that was about it.

Well, I knew I'd be here three to four years. And I think we're coming up to 25 years in August of being here. God had other plans for us.

And that was it. The kitchen is not what I would have chosen. It's rather small.

And do you know when I get most frustrated is when our family is over and we have 20 people and they're all in the kitchen. And I've got all these grandkids running around getting in the way. And I get frustrated over the smaller kitchen.

Think about it. I have my family here making memories. It's wonderful.

I'll take a small kitchen with all my family before I take a big kitchen without them. It was interesting. I taught at ICC.

And I walked into class one time and all the students were talking about how little they had, how poor they were. And I just listened to them for a while. And they were saying they didn't have any money.

And I said, “I don't mean to brag, but I am really, really wealthy.” And they looked and they said, “Really?” And I said, “Yeah, really wealthy.”

And he said, “Must be nice.” I said, “Yeah, it really is.” I said, “Do you realize that my husband and I, we have two cars?”

And they kind of looked at me and they said, “Yeah.” I said, “No, no, no, no. Do you understand that when I walk into my house, I have heat in the winter?

And, and air conditioning in the summer.” And they kind of looked at me and go, “Yeah.” And I said, “And I can go to this faucet and I can turn this handle and fresh water comes out.”

They all looked and said, “Yeah.” And I said, “That is how wealthy I am.” And they all kind of looked and they said, “We get it.”

And we are very wealthy in this country. We are very wealthy. See, having what you have could be seen as extremely wealthy in many countries.

Even when it's their norm. But with war-torn countries, it's even worse. It's just all about perspective.

Laura Dugger: (13:58 - 14:10) Well, I think you're highlighting the keys to contentment. It's all about perspective and also gratitude. How would you define stewardship?

Markie Castle: (14:11 - 14:19) I would just say it's taking great care of what God has given us and using it for his glory.

Laura Dugger: (14:19 - 14:27) Well, and what has been the most unexpected benefit of coaching your sons on wise financial stewardship?

Markie Castle: (14:28 - 17:52) That is such a great question. I would say the independence that they had as teenagers and adults. It was incredible to see how they were independent with money and other ways because of it.

Each son also married women who were financially aware. We never really talked about that. When our children got married, we had one stipulation that they married a believer for us to bless the marriage.

But it was amazing that they all married women who were financially conservative. We have never had any trouble or issues with any of our children with money. I know that some people will say, you never lend relatives money, you give it to them because you know you'll never get it back.

Well, we have lent our kids money for certain predicaments when they first started off and they started paying us back immediately. There's a lot of talk about whether you should let your children move back into your house. Now, I know people have said, “Nope, once my kids are gone, they're gone.”

And I don't think that's very loving. I think that anybody is allowed back, you know, if they need to come back and live with us, even if it's somebody in our church family, they would be welcomed. All three of our boys at some point came back to live with us for a while for different reasons.

And we actually charged them rent. And they were very good with that. In fact, they liked it because then they weren't freeloading.

Now, they didn't know it at the time, but we took their rent and put it away and kept it separately. And then when they moved out, they had a nice little sum there that they could use for a down payment for their house or for moving costs or whatever. I think it's important to watch your children grow, to give them.

And these are the things that we have seen that we didn't expect. All of our boys are very financially secure. And they only have mortgage debt, which they are all paying off quicker than what was scheduled.

And this is just a mindset. They are not suffering because they don't have the new car. In fact, our one son and his wife, they bought our old van 10 years ago, and they still have it.

They're at 195,000 miles on the car. Now, I think she wears this like a badge of honor. She's going to make it to 200,000.

They have been putting money away for a new car. They have enough money to buy a new car, but they're going to wait until they need it. And when they need it, they're going to be able to go in and say, here is the money for the car.

I don't need a loan. Those are the things that kind of surprised me.

Laura Dugger: (17:53 - 17:58) I think oftentimes there's a lot of joy when we have limits.

Markie Castle: (17:59 - 18:04) Exactly. I agree with you. It does give you joy to know that you have that freedom.

Laura Dugger: (18:06 - 18:22) Well, and we've spoken kind of about big picture, and I'd love to move in the funnel now down to actionable and practical. So, when you look back, how old were your children when you and Bob began training them on finances?

Markie Castle: (18:24 - 19:08) Truly, as soon as our children understood the meaning of money, we started. We started our oldest son when he was five years old by giving him allowance. The others started when they were four because they saw what was happening with the older child.

And I know a lot of people relate to this and they wanted to be a part of it. You know, your younger ones sometimes learn faster because of the older ones. It was important to start when they were wanting things at the stores, whether it was toys or candy at the checkout aisle, etc.

They needed an awareness that everything costs money and they couldn't have everything.

Laura Dugger: (19:09 - 19:32) Well, and I remember you coming to speak to our mom’s group one time. And even if somebody is wondering, well, how do I keep this fair between children? You even had a solution for that because with your kids at the different ages, I remember you saying you started them with one dollar per year old they were per week.

So, the four-year-old only made four dollars for the five-year-old made five.

Markie Castle: (19:33 - 21:21) That's right. Well, and it's funny you say about the fairness. Even when our children, so we had three boys, they were all two years apart, so they were really involved with one another.

They were great friends. But I remember going to my husband's mom was watching our children when we ran to get something to do a few errands. And we came back with a pair of shoes that our oldest child needed.

And she looked at us and said she didn't get anything for the other boys. And I said, but they didn't need new shoes and they don't need anything. And she goes, but you can't bring something in for one child without bringing in something for the others.

And I reiterated, but they didn't need anything. And do you know what? Our boys, we never thought anything of that.

Our boys have never said, well, why didn't I get anything? And if they did, we'd say, “Well, you didn't need this or you didn't need that.” Our children never counted what the other ones have.

Now saying that when it came to the birthdays, we gave the same monetary value to all of them when it came to Christmas, when it came to things. But when it really came to that, one son needed a pair of shoes, but the others didn't. We didn't go out and get shoes for all of them.

And they just were raised with that. And to this day, they all know that it all comes out fairly in the end. You know, we don't bring home things just for one, the same child every time.

Does that make sense?

Laura Dugger: (21:21 - 21:32) Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate that perspective. I'm also curious, were there any other memorable phrases you and your husband taught your children?

Markie Castle: (21:33 - 26:37) You know, there were many. One of the things we had said to them was we can afford anything. But we can't afford everything.

So, we would impress upon them how fortunate we were to afford things. But we certainly can't afford everything. We had friends who would never purchase soda and we did the same thing.

But they really like to travel and the kids like to travel. And so, they wouldn't buy a soda in a restaurant or buy a snack at the mall because they wanted to travel. And they would ask their kids, you know, would you rather purchase a soda or snack now or enjoy the soda or snack in Europe?

And it made the kids think. OK, so again, this is all in what you choose. I was listening to someone at a talk and actually at a moment at our church that said, “You know, what could you save if you didn't get your daily latte from Starbucks?”

And I'm thinking, OK, and his point was at six dollars per drink. You could say. And I figured this out, two thousand one hundred and eighty-four dollars per year.

After two years, you could have enough money to go to Hawaii. Now, that's great. This particular person loves to travel and he doesn't like coffee.

So, to him, it was a no brainer. But if someone doesn't like to travel. But enjoys that daily vacation of going to Starbucks.

This may be the one they would choose. So, we're all different in what we like and what we want. But.

The important thing is, is that you're not adding this to a debt that you're paying 24 percent interest because that six dollar cup of coffee is actually going to cost you much more than the six dollars. Also, I was teaching a group of nearly married couples about finances and. Someone brought up that they can't afford a date night.

I mean, after babysitting, after dinner at the restaurant, etc. they can't afford that. And babysitting nowadays is ridiculously expensive. And another couple said that they have date nights every other week.

What they do is they trade off with another couple for babysitting and they pack a dinner and go on a picnic. So, basically, their date night costs them nothing. Not being able to afford an expensive dinner for a date night.

That puts you in a mindset that you're doing without. Instead, look at what you have. You know, taking a hike.

Visiting a museum on a free day. Getting a membership to places that you could then feel like you're going for free. Walking along the river.

All of these are wonderful ways to have a date night. My husband and I would have a date night in our home. We would feed the boys their favorite chicken nuggets and macaroni and cheese.

And we put them to bed. We would then, I would get out and have tablecloth and have candlelight. And we would have a quiet adult meal by candlelight.

It was a wonderful date night. And it cost us nothing. Now, where we were, we could not afford babysitting.

And we did not have people who could babysit. We didn't have a community that we could share babysitting. We did find that as the kids got older.

And we utilized that, which was wonderful. We used to share a Friday night with a family. This is when the kids were a little older.

And we would switch with them. Every other Friday night, we would switch kids. We would take their kids for one of the Fridays.

And then two weeks later, they would take our kids. And they took them overnight. So, we had, you know, Friday evening and Saturday morning.

And it cost us nothing. And the joy of that was when we took their kids, it was a blast. Because we always planned on doing extra special things.

Because it was like one big party. It worked very well. And we were able to have free babysitting just because we exchanged.

As opposed to paying for a babysitter.

Laura Dugger: (26:38 - 29:02) And I love the creativity. How you problem solved that to still go for your date night. Because that was a value.

And I think you're empowering all of us that these options are possible. And we do have a choice in this situation. And then also the reality that we're going to operate within the reality of trade-offs.

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And as you and Bob continued to train your children with finances, how did you see this play out with each of their different personalities?

Markie Castle: (29:04 - 32:55) Although we raised our boys within the same manner, we were blessed with three totally different children. Totally. When it came to money, one was a saver, one was a spender, and one was a minimalist.

And although they all were different, they all needed the structure of financial awareness. So, our eldest wanted to save every dime that he was given. And you know what?

He's still that way. He wants to save, save, save, save, save. Our middle child would spend every dime that he would receive.

It would not be in his pocket for more than a couple of minutes. Then our youngest child didn't care about buying anything, which was very different from the saver. He was just a minimalist.

I don't need anything. It just doesn't matter. And he is still that way.

So, our spender needed to learn the importance of budgeting and saving. They all needed to learn it, but it was extremely important for him. And he did learn.

When he was about 10 or 11, he lost some money for not doing certain chores. And he looked at us and said, the only reason you had children was to make money. My husband and I were literally speechless.

We kind of just looked at him and we didn't know what to say. And then he just looked at us after a couple of moments and he said, that's the stupidest thing I've ever said. And yep, we all had a good laugh.

He did learn to budget and it was interesting. So, when he was in high school and starting to date, he took this girl that he wound up dating for several years. And he was going to go to the movies and he was a gentleman.

He was absolutely a gentleman. And they walked into the movies and he paid for the movies because that's what you do. And then as they were walking past the concession stand, he said, “Well, do you want popcorn?”

And she said, “Oh, that'd be nice.” And he said, “Okay, well, you're going to need to get it yourself. I'm not paying those prices.”

And she was kind of, ”Okay.” Now we needed to teach him a little bit more about dating with that. But it was like he paid for the movies.

He wasn't going to pay $10 for a box of popcorn. So, he had learned the value of money. When you can get into the movie for less money than a box of popcorn, there's something to be thought about that.

I am happy to say that while he did not marry her, but I'm happy to say that he did marry someone and he learned to budget. And she is all about budget, budget, budget. But that also means that they are able to enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

I think budget gets a really bad name because you think that means that you can't buy things if you budget. And I see it as the exact opposite. If I budget $50 for entertainment, for the month, for the week, for whatever, you can enjoy having that entertainment because that's money that is free and clear for you to use.

Laura Dugger: (32:56 - 33:14) Yeah, I'm with you on that too, because I do think that self-control that really is a fruit of the spirit, but that discipline and self-control leads to freedom eventually. And so, again, those limits provide joy and freedom, which is counterintuitive, but the Lord's economy.

Markie Castle: (33:14 - 33:34) That's right. But once you do it, you realize, and we have seen this happen, that they go, “Oh, I feel better about going to the movies because it's already been planned, which goes back to when you build a tower, you should plan that.”

Laura Dugger: (33:35 - 33:43) You've mentioned that you did offer an allowance. So, what were your allowance or commission guidelines?

Markie Castle: (33:44 - 35:58) So, there's many trains of thought with this. We felt that there were certain chores that needed to be done as part of the household. So, making your bed, setting the table, helping with dinner, cleaning up the dishes, sweeping the floor.

Obviously, our children were expected to do more as they got older. I would give them opportunities, though, to do over and beyond, and then they could make extra money. So, there were certain expectations on a daily basis, and that was part of being part of the household, being part of the family.

But to go over and beyond would give us the time. Now, I do know some people pay for everything that they do, and I understand where they're coming from with that, but then they may choose not to make their bed or choose not to set the table because they don't want the money, but then other people need the table to be set. So, that can cause issues, too.

We never, when it came to grades, I know that's something that's talked about, we never paid for certain grades in school. We did allow them, you know, at the time it was, well, if you get this many A's, you can get a pizza or something, you know, from Pizza Hut or something. We would do that, but we never paid for specific grades for our kids.

There was an expectation that they would do well, not for the money. But we would all go out and celebrate when they all had good report cards. So, I know that there's different trains of thought with that.

You know, there are some others who will put a price on certain chores and have the allowance reflect that money they made. Our boys received their allowance, but there were times that we charged them when we needed to do their chore, like pick up their clothes in the bathroom after they've been asked to do so. So, if we did something, we kind of charged them for it.

And that's when our son said, well, you just had children to make money.

Laura Dugger: (35:59 - 37:14) Guess what? We are no longer an audio only podcast. We now have video included as well.

If you want to view the conversation each week, make sure you watch our videos. We're on YouTube and you can access videos or find answers to any of your other questions about the podcast when you visit thesavvysauce.com.

With our family, our daughters currently are nine, eight, six, and four. And so, they have the understanding of give, save, spend. But just this summer, our sweet and very generous neighbor, Jillian, James and Jillian, have hired our oldest two, Sayla and Shiloh, to water their plants while they're traveling. And so, this is their first paid job opportunity.

And so, my plan with my husband is to train our girls with this podcast. And there's a question I want to ask you next that I believe will even guide us with our conversation and how to train them. So, when your children were earning money or making this allowance, even from a young age, how did you teach them to split their money?

Markie Castle: (37:16 - 42:21) So, we set up our allowance that they were given one-dollar times their age, which you had alluded to early on. So, each week, a five-year-old would get five dollars a week, which sounds like a lot, right? Or a ten-year-old would get ten dollars.

And that sounds awesome, right? But it was broken down. So, we first would take ten percent which goes to charity.

We wanted to teach the children about tithing. And that was the first. The next, we had ten percent that was taken for taxes.

And we used that for family fun night, which made those nights special to them. Now, what they learned from having their taxes taken, when they went to get their first job, like when they were 16 or 17, and our oldest son got a job at the Zoli's when it was there. And he was not in shock when he was given his paycheck and taxes were taken out.

He understood that. All his other friends were complaining about them taking it. But our children knew there were taxes, and taxes went for the good of the community.

We also took ten percent for retirement. And that was just good habits to form. We kept it.

We kept account of how much it was. And when they got out of college, we gave them their retirement. Wow.

Now in their 30s, they have a financial guy and he is shocked at how set our children are for the future. Then 20 percent went to college. Once again, this was kind of a mindset.

Now, if you don't think your children are going to go to college, I would still recommend at least going to community college or a trade or whatever. We saved this and gave it to them to put towards their expenses when they went to college. So, we literally gave them their money and said, this is what you have saved over all these years.

Now you have 50 percent left. So, 25 percent went to savings. And they had to put this in a separate category, and they needed to buy something with it that was $25 or more.

We wanted them to learn how to save up for that special whatever they wanted. They could spend that on whatever. So, that would make for a five-year-old, fifty cents went to church, fifty cents for taxes, fifty cents for retirement, a dollar for college, a dollar twenty-five for savings.

And what they got at the end, they got a dollar twenty-five for the week, which is a good amount for a five-year-old. But let me just say, when I say so they can spend it, if you're the parent, it is okay to say no to what they are purchasing. Our middle son at a point, now he was older, but he wanted to get 10 piercings in one ear.

We didn't think this was a wise decision, not all at the same time. He respectfully stated that he was old enough that he didn't need our permission and that he could pay for it. Now, mind you, he was living with us at the time, but he said he didn't need our permission.

And he said it respectfully. We did tell him no, and that as long as he was living with us, reaping the benefits of our house, utilities, food, vacations, he still needs to abide by our parental decisions. And you know what?

It wasn't an issue. He said, okay. And when he was on his own, you know what?

He had become wiser over those couple of years and he didn't do it. So, it's okay to say no to some things. And saying that, doing this allowance, it makes going places so much nicer.

I never said no to my kids. And it was funny because when we talk about moms’ groups or whatever, I said, “Oh, I never tell my children no. They can have, you know, what they asked me for things, I never tell them no.”

And they go, “Really?” And I said, “Yeah.” I'd say, “Do you have the money for it?”

Oh, okay. And then it wasn't me saying no. They needed to make that decision.

This sounds so negative and it truly is not. Our boys took great pride in paying for their own things. I mean, they used discernment in their choices.

And they took great care of those toys that they bought. There was a sense of ownership and responsibility to it. This was not negative.

It was truly positive and taught them much more than just about money.

Laura Dugger: (42:22 - 42:41) Well, and it's such a great real-world experience. I've never heard someone teach like this before, where you broke it down so specifically. But really, it reflected how they would handle money as adults.

And so, I think it's brilliant. And I'm wondering if you have any other practical recommendations that we haven't covered yet.

Markie Castle: (42:43 - 45:07) I would give a few. So, in their allowance, I put the cash in clear containers labeled so that they could see what they had. When they were older, we moved it to paper because I wanted them to be taught about how banks work.

Another couple of things. We never had issues going through candy aisles or going to events. We would pay for the tickets.

If they wanted to buy a snack like at Six Flags or something, they could. But they'd have to use their own money. Now, we're not cruel.

We would buy lunch for them. But if they wanted that $10 soft pretzel, they needed to buy it. Another thing, if they received money for a birthday gift, we felt that that was all theirs to spend.

Because to me, that gift, you know, if they were given a toy, we wouldn't split that toy up and give 10% to charity. So, they could keep all the money and go and buy what they wanted. One other thing, and some people may find this controversial, but I would suggest getting a credit card for your children as soon as you can while they are living with you.

And then you can give them the guidance that they need. Our son learned from an early age that you only charge items that you know you will be able to pay off at the end of the month. A debit card is good too, that they need to have that money in there.

But we liked setting the habit of paying off the credit card every month. A debit card would say, you can't slide this card unless you have that money in the bank. Either way, I would highly recommend you get your children something so you can give them the guidance of how to use it.

We knew people who wouldn't allow their children to date until they were 18. And my thought was, I don't want to give my children the go ahead to date when they go off to college. I wanted to be able to guide them.

So, we said, when you're 16, you can date. And then we were able to guide them and teach them along the way.

Laura Dugger: (45:08 - 45:14) That's so good. And can you think of anything else that you want to make sure we don't overlook today?

Markie Castle: (45:15 - 45:51) After counseling and mentoring many couples who have asked us for help, I realized that financial difficulties and marriage issues go hand in hand. That puts a stress in a marriage that comes out in other ways. If someone is having financial issues, you need to get help.

I would also say to teach your children so they are raised with a God-honoring respect for money. 1 Timothy 6:10 doesn't state that money is the root of all evil. It states that “the love of money is the root of all evil.”

Laura Dugger: (45:52 - 45:59) Well, I love all of the practical tips you've shared. And do you have any other favorite stories that come to mind?

Markie Castle: (46:00 - 48:23) One that is particularly close to me is we had very, very close friends who actually my husband worked under him for many years. But we were very close. And in fact, we moved together and with my husband's job and very close.

He was an exec, a cat, very high up. And making more money was the most important thing. Climbing that corporate ladder.

And suddenly he just realized how unhappy he was. He also put his children at bay because he worked so much. He needed to have the better cars, the better house, the better everything.

And one evening, there's a knock at the door. We weren't expecting him. And they were just standing there.

And he just said, “Can we talk?” And he came in and he looked at us and said, “When is enough??” And he had tears in his eyes.

And he knew that money was driving him at the cost of his marriage, although they were still together, but at the cost of the relationship with his children. And he said, “When is enough? And we talked to him.

We again shared the gospel, which we had shared before. And when you have Christ in your life, for me, that's enough. That's all I need is Christ.

He turned his life over to the Lord. He became a believer. He quit his job, which he had planned on.

And financially, he was great. And what he does now, he does a lot of mission work. He goes to different places that have been hit by a tornado.

And he's with the group that goes all over taking care of other people. And he is far, far wealthier than he ever was.

Laura Dugger: (48:24 - 48:48) Wow, Markie, that is so powerful. And what an incredible story to start to close our time together with. But I still have one final question for you, because our podcast is called The Savvy Sauce, because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or discernment.

And so, this is my final question for you today. What is your savvy sauce?

Markie Castle: (48:49 - 49:28) I would say beware of giving your children everything they want. And everything you think they need. Wanting is a great lesson to learn.

And as we've been told in the Bible, patience is a virtue. Having children earning their own money and spending it teaches them independence and develops them to be adults who are secure with the choices they have learned to make. This is far more than just teaching them about money.

Much more is developed within them.

Laura Dugger: (49:28 - 50:00) That is so good. And truly, Markie, this conversation, I can't wait to share it with all of our girls, with Isla and Kessler, too, being even just six and four. I think you have so many helpful practical takeaways.

And you're such a gifted teacher. So, it's been a joy to learn from you during this time. So, thank you, not only for applying scriptures to the way you interact with finances, but thank you for also sharing those applications with us today.

And thank you for being my guest.

Markie Castle: (50:01 - 50:10) Laura, it's truly been my pleasure. I appreciate you and I appreciate how God-centered you are and with this podcast.

Laura Dugger: (50:11 - 53:29) Wow, thank you so much. That encouragement means a lot. One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.

Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.

We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.

That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.

This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.

Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.

Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.

And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.

First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.

You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.

And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.

And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce

Practical chats for intentional living

A faith-based podcast and resources to help you grow closer to Jesus and others. Expect encouragement, surprises, and hope here. Each episode offers lively interviews with fascinating guests such as therapists, authors, non-profit founders, and business leaders.

They share their best practices and savvy tips we can replicate to make our daily life and relationships more enjoyable!